Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

Alt reflects on decision to leave Game Commission
By Bob Frye
TRIBUNE-REVIEW OUTDOORS EDITOR
Sunday, January 9, 2005

It was January of 2000 and the Pennsylvania Game Commission was having its first meeting of the year.

It was a coming out party of sorts for Gary Alt. He had just been appointed head of the agency's deer management section about three months earlier and this was his first chance to really let the public know what he was thinking.

Alt, in typical fashion, was a firebrand that day, his voice rising as he called the tolerance of an overabundance of deer "the greatest skeleton in the closet of wildlife management."

Alt also offered up a bit of prophecy that day. He said he was dedicating his life to fixing the deer situation. If he could do that as an employee of the Game Commission, he would. But if the agency or hunters wouldn't let him succeed, Alt said, he would lead the charge from outside.

That day may be here.

Alt left the commission effective Dec. 31. It was officially billed as a retirement, though Alt is just 53 years old.

Last week, Alt spoke publicly for the first time about his decision to leave. It was not about protecting his retirement or putting the wraps on a career that had run its course.

Alt said he retired because his bosses at the commission would not let him do what needed to be done to bring deer into balance with their habitat.

"It was an impossible situation. There was no way to win," Alt said.

The problem of Alt being at odds with some others within the agency is not a recent development. it began when Alt was asked -- after having spent three months touring the state talking about the need for antler restrictions -- to do an about face and drop his request for them.

It continue, he said, when his bosses, in an attempt to "rein him in," started sending representatives of the executive office to the deer section's meetings to squash biological discussions.

Alt refused to back down in either case. When things deteriorated so far that he felt he could no longer be effective, he walked away.

"I didn't want to put my credibility at stake by staying. I would rather starve than perform malpractice," Alt said. "I'm not going to do it."

Alt believes the problem of trying to raise more deer than the landscape can support will be solved. Too many people in society are aware of the issue to think change isn't coming.

The only question, Alt said, is whether the Game Commission can be the agency to bring that change about. Alt believes most hunters bought into his programs, but worries that a vocal minority will force some commissioners to back away from doing the right thing.

That would be a "lethal mistake," he said.

"I feel sad because Pennsylvania deserves better than what it has had. I feel sad about what will likely happen to the commission if they turn and run," Alt said.

Either way, Alt figures to be around to see what happens next. He's lining up work leading photo tours to sites around the world. He wants to write a few natural history books on bear and deer, too, and do some lectures.

Already, though, several groups have approached him about becoming a spokesman for deer issues on a state or national level.

"I still believe deeply in this cause," Alt said. " I don't think I'll ever walk away from it completely."

In the meantime, Alt said he has no regrets about his decision to retire. He's proud of what he and his deer team accomplished, and with how hunters adapted to things like antler restrictions when so many thought they couldn't.

"I have no interest in name calling. I have no interest in blame. I just want Pennsylvania to manage its wildlife in a better fashion than it has done," Alt said.

"That's not optional. That has to be done. If the leadership is not in place to get that done, we have to find the right leadership and put it in a position to do what's right."


Bob Frye can be reached at [email protected] or (724) 838-5148.

here's the link:
[link]http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/outdoors/s_291309.html[/link]

The parts about reining him in by sending executive board reps to quash biological discussions and the part about the very vocal minority are very interesting.

BTW, I personally heard him say he would quit before committing malpractice 4 years ago. At least the guy has principals. It looks like he was up to the job of deer management, he just wasnt up to the politics.
Lets hope politics dont win in the end.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

BT I don't know about you but if my boss says do something I do it, if I choose not to I quit or get fired...simple as that.
they told him the direction they wanted him to go in and he should have, as an employee of mine ( and every hunter in the state) I expect him to do as his bosses ( that my Govenor appointed) told him to.
I see no honor in his actions he was a rouge!!!

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

If I hire a heart surgeon to fix my ticker, it would be pretty stupid of me to tell him how to perform the operation. Yes, I'm the boss in that case, but he's the expert. Alt simply said he'd rather quit than do it wrong. Whether you agree with him or not, he stood for his principles and refused to do something he thought was wrong. He said it from the getgo and stuck to his guns.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

I'm tired of beating this dead horse, Alt IMHO started something he didn't have the backbone to finish and any sane person can see that. he had to know he was in for a hard fight trying to convince hunters it was for their benifit to not see many deer. now that the hunters are revolting he called it quits.
Spin it anyway you and your like wish but that is a fact. He quit when the going got tough on him an the job was not finished.
I for one am glad he did while there is a chance to repair the damage. He did more than damage the deer herd, he got alot of land closed to hunting now that was open thruout the state.
i've said it many times: ALT did more to end sport hunting in Pa than any anti org has done in the last 10 yrs..hunters can't find a place to hunt they quit, hunters don't see deer they quit 2 of the top 3 reasons hunters quit the sport.......Alt produced both

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

The man said other groups need to finance the PGC.What else is there to say?

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

U, Alt couldn't finish what he started because they wouldn't let him. He knew he was in for fight when he got into this and he stood strong until the politics wouldn't let him continue. I say the ones without backbones are the ones who forced him out and are caving in to the uneducated hunters who ONLY care about seeing MORE deer. They seem to be the ones not willing to stand up for what is the right thing to do and taking the easy way out.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

902 you are 100% correct and it puts a smile on my face, thing s won't make a 100% turn around this year but the corner has been turned :)

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

Have you guys ever heard of a "brownnoser" or an @$$Kisser? I think Alt was none of the above, I think he just might fall in the catergory as one of the guys that "didn't take any s#i#........

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

and unemployed

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

People are tired of his rhetoric, they are tired of promises not delivered and misleading
reports that the sky is falling.

He can't go back to the days when his daddy would fly him around in the family private plane...... and look for bears. You can never go back.....

I'm looking to the immediate future which is January for my decision to purchase anymore Pa hunting licences. If Pa is going to continue the hype and hyperbole method of railroading hunters, then I will find better things to spend money on.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

right Chickory so am I. I've made a point of telling every senator I could email I will not support any rate hikes the PGC requests till they get a handle on all WMU deer populations those too high as well as though to low.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

yours & BTBs' comments make more sense. He wasn't allowed to perform his job... Micro-management has infilltrated alot of Gov't.. and it MUST STOP. If I'm hired to do a job that i'm qualified for, DON"t tell me how to do it... leave me alone or just do it yourself. That's Micro-management. And who do we have to thank for that attitude in Gov't?
I realize tha Pa has some issues, but it isn't the end of the world.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

902,I don't think it's a matter of seeing more deer but a matter of mismanaging certain areas.Some places are already below their projected goal yet Alt continued to say we have to kill more deer.Yes we do but that's in areas with very little hunter access.Has nothing to do with public land.These people are telling you and the PGC that the herd has been overharvested in some areas.Why don't you believe them?I agree there needed to be some herd reduction but some places are reaching critical stages real quick.These people telling you this aren't lying and if they didn't love the sport of hunting they wouldn't be on here writing about it.Why can't you pro alt guys get that in your head?
Don't take my word for it,take a drive to these areas hunters are talking about and take a hike and see for yourself.Union county would be a good start.
Deer aren't magic so just use their sign as an indicator.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

germain: nice post

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

Think about this for a minute. We have heard that the deer are being wipe out here or there since the first bonus tags came out. Yet the annual kill continues to rise. Wouldnt it stand to reason that the kill would have to crash if the doomsayers are correct?

I will tell you what I've observed of late. We no longer have that massive kill on opening day but the kill is more strung out. Hence we dont see as many deer taken on the days that they traditionally were. (This is only a theory from personal observation)

One things for sure, other than one member here who claims that the doe kill means nothing,(yeah right) no one has been able to explain why the kill numbers havent crashed if deer numbers are really down that badly.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

apparently you haven't been looking at the buck kill numbers from 2000 thru 2004 NOSE DIVE
If this this is an indication of how you see the stock market, take some advice don't buy stock

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

Im talking about the total kill. The buck kill is down due to AR, the fact that some are now taking a doe and then thye're done etc.

If there are no deer to kill, the TOTAL kill would drop, no, it would crash!

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

If you did a little reading instead of just relyng on what Alt tells you and your opinionns ,you would know that the harvests have decreased dramatically in the areas where the herd has been reduced. The harvest in Elk Co. dropped from 7,328 in 1995 to 5120 in 2003. At the same time the buck harvest dropped from 3,255 to 1920. Is it any wonder the hunters in 2 G aren't happy!

Don't you even understand the most simple concepts of deer management and AR. The 1.5 buck saved during the first year of AR and become 2.5 buck that replace the 1.5 buck that are saved the second year,so as Alt said the buck harvest should return to normal in the second year of AR.

Furthermore , the total harvest is not an accurate indicator of the PS population,since the anterless harvest are determined by the number of anterless tags issued rather than by the OWDD. Even if the herd had been reduced from 1.6M PS deer to 1.2M PS deer there would still be somewhere close to 1M PS anterless deer for the hunters to choose from If hunters harvested 33% of the 1 M PS anterless deer the harvest would be 330K. So it simply doesn't follow that a smaller herd means smaller total harvests ,at least in the short term.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

Bt you'd better get your nose out of P'burgh and have a good look around the state
only a horn monger would say we can keep killing doe at record breaking levels without cutting back an profess we aren't in for a disaster
get out and go on some public land in just about any WMU then tell me there isn't a mess in Elmerton Ave.Cripes even your savior Cutn Run admitted that!

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

My camp is in the ANF and I hunt public land there. Yes the numbers seem down somewhat (in rifle season but we see plenty in bow season) but the hunter numbers are way down and that began long before Alt came along. Funny, our gang still manages to do well on public ground in the ANF even though we hear the same old crap in the local taverns from the same old guys that all the deer are gone.

Again, You guys keep saying the train wreck is coming but it hasnt come yet!

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

I can explain that BT.While the numbers on public land have drastically been reduced,the deer populations continue to grow in populated areas with little or no access.This offsets the low kills in the NC and such.Wasn't too long ago the sw and se part of the state had low deer numbers.Now those herds keep growing.Compare harvest rates by counties in the past and present and you can see the flip flops.The only way they'll get the herd down in these areas is with snipers or birth control.If and when they do you'll see much lower harvests statewide.When the figures come out alot of counties or WMU'S will have record low kills,no doubt.And these will be traditionally high harvest areas with mostly state land where the terrain is more suitable for the white tailed deer compared to the populated areas with houses,highways,and asphalt.
But then we'll here about the health of the forests.Give the oaks light and they will grow.I said it before and I'll say it again,if they're so worried about the maples taking over why are they eliminating the animal that eats them?
Simple,there's more to it then we know.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

toot - toooot BLAM~!
You know I live here in God's country, I don't drive up down to my son's house in 3D a few weekends a year and try to convince him that there are as many deer in 3D today as there was 5 yrs ago there. Why? Cause he knows better he LIVES there 24/7 365 days a year.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

Germain, I basically agree with what you said in general. Yes, numbers are down in the traditional big woods counties and yes there are areas where it will take even more drastic measures to slow down the deer pop explosion. But most of all I agree with you on this:

Thats why I'm reluctant to listen to someone here with too little information or to someone who wishes to take figures published by the professionals and let him twist them his own way.

We, as hunters are a small minority here and the sooner we recognize that the deer herd is not ours alone to manage the better off we will be. Yes we fund the PGC but it's the farmers, timber co's and even the state and federal govt that owns the land we hunt on and the land that feeds and shelters the deer. Even the suburbanites who feed deer their shrubbery have something to say here. I wish it wasnt so but it is a fact of life. If we as hunters dont get on board and manage the deer or (any other game for that matter) in balance with the habitat the rest of the world WILL find a way to balance em.

Shouldnt we all be glad that Audobon funded Gary Alt instead of putting the money into deer contaceptive research or some other wacko scheme?

As I see it, the deer herd will get reduced. we can either embrace it and be a useful part of that or we can get steamrolled by resisting. Dont think it cant happen!

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

The train wreck may not have come to the are where you hunt , but it has occurred in many other areas. When are you going to address the issues I raised in my previous post or are you going to tryy to ignore them because you have no rational response.

You are still in denial and refuse to dmit Alt's plan has failed. At least he was smart enough to admit he was ineffective and failed to accomplish his goal. He was appointed to reduce the OWDD by 50% but intead he only decreased the buck harvest by 30% while the OWDD continued to increase.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

You are right, I have no rational response to your claim that the total kill has no meaning. The is no rational response because the claim makes no sense. Again, we've been hearing the claim that the deer will be wiped out ever since the bonus tags came out years ago. Yes, the numbers will decline and level off where HR is working. Yes, more drastic measure may be needed where it isnt working. Guess what? Gary Alt said all that 5 years ago!

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

Dead: don't waste your breath there will always be some (thank God they are in the minority) that just can't understand hunters in Pa just aren't interested in the kind of racks they watch getting killed from DBL Bull blinds in Ks at the expense of seeing deer in Pa.
IMHO they spend way too much time watching The Outdoor Channel and have lost sight of reality.
Pa is steeped in tradition when it comes to deer hunting, and the MAJORITY of hunters what to keep it that way.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

I challenge you to find one quote from Alt where he said harvests would decline. What he said was ,we would have more and bigger buck than ever before in PA, hunting would be better than ever, AR would double the number of 8 + pt buck and the buck harvests would return to normal after 1 year of AR.

It would be obvious to anyone with the intellectual capacity of a high school senior, that reducing the herd means that one has to harvest more deer than are recruited into the herd each year. That means that the anterless harvest will remoan high for several years until enough adult doe are removed to reach the OWDD goal of 12 DPSM. Since in 2003 we had 1.1M OWD , that means we have to harvest an additional 550K anterless deer ,above the yearly net fawn recruitment in order to reach the goal, That is why the anterless harvest and total harvest will remain high for several more years .But I know that is beyond your level of comprehension and you will reject it because it simply doesn't agree with what you think should happen.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

BT,I agree the herd needed reduced and still does in some areas.Back in the 80,s an average day produced about 50 deer sightings.While I agree that was too many for the big woods habitat I also think seeing one deer a day or none has gone to the extreme.The habitat can support more deer then that.In other words,let's balance the management with all involved including us hunters.Without using the same old boring numbers we've been looking at the past two years let's put it in a hunter's perspective.After the bonus tags were introduced and her reduction started taking effect,our sightings decreased to about 10-12 deer a day.I can live with that,a good huntable number.One or no deer a day is not.And these are the conditions alot of hunters are hunting under.I ask the people who support Alt?Can you honestly say you'd be happy with seeing maybe one deer in a full day's hunt?
Now some are saying the people who are complaining don't know how to hunt or need to move.Come on,we're talking about the PA big woods where folks have cabins for generations.As for the not knowing how to hunt theory?I have plenty of experience and buck kills to debate that.{not intended for you bt}
Can't they find a common goal between the hunters and others?After all we lead the pack in money spent in conservation.I didn't hear many people complaining when those numbers of sightings dropped to 10-12 a day.A few but not like now.There's obviously a serious problem and these people are simply very concerned sportsmen and women who are passionate about their sport.
I see hunters calling other hunters whiners and troublemakers.I guess it's all in how the fellow sportsmen look at them.Maybe instead of calling them selfish,they can feel bad for the situation they're in and help find a common goal.
I see where 902 gets on people pretty hard likes it's personal.I could choose to think of 902 for being selfish and not care about the situation alot of hunters are in,but I won't.I'd rather believe he's a fellow that cares about the forest and truly thinks it's for the best.And there's nothing wrong with that but listen to what the other side is saying let's work together and find a balance.I really think we can do that.But we have to care about the sportsmen on the other side of the state too.Listen to what people are saying,there's very few deer.And in most of the state land I'm familar with,there's too few.There's been an overharvest and the PGC isn't doing anything to adress that problem.

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

BT,I have to disagree with you saying we should be glad audobon put monies toward the deer studies.
Their interest is bird watching and mine is hunting.;)

RE: Some of Gary Alts parting words
 

the only bird I want to see is the one I'm flipping at the Audubon flower sniffers whom tell me there are too many deer cause they can't find a Ginseng root to suck on!