chickory

Yep PGC already sharecrops the majority of thier SGLs, and acorns only make a part of a deers diet for a few weeks in fall. In winter deer mainly shift to browse, and pa's forests according to the Bureau of Forestry are "predominantly mature" meaning ready to cut at the 1% a year rate. (Actually DCNR shifted thier rotation in the new forest mgmt plan to be variable, it used to be 100 years, now it is 80 to 100 depending on species composition)

So no, cutting mast trees and replacing them is not detrimental to wildlife, it creates the diversity of sapling stage, pole stage, and mature that is needed for ALL wildlife.

And the pgc does already (has for years) partnered with private landowners in CREP and co-op projects to create food for deer.

Pa can support decent deer numbers with the habitat we have today, it has for decades, but the enviromentalists are drawing a line in the sand and saying there cannot be a tradeoff of flora for wildlife. (trees for deer)

Well there always has and always will be a tradeoff. If you go by ecoweenie standards in pa we will have few deer <12dpsm. If we accept the tradeoff, even Audubon says our state could support between 18-20dpsm before affecting regen.

So why is the PGC at 12dpsm ave. for our DD goal?

Its an extremist goal meant to make a point, but is not a realistic goal for longterm and statewide.

The DD goals are way out of whack, and in the next few years they will be changed.

deaddeer

The reason they don't is because the soils on most game lands are so poor that it would not be economically feasible to grow a crop to be marketed.

BTBowhunter

Thanks for a concise, reasonable answer DD.

deaddeer

You are certainly welcome. Anytime I can be of service just ask.

DougE

People get way to hung up on the mast crop.Like someone else mentioned,it only lasts for a while and it can be extremely sporadic.Besides red oak is the major cash crop and deer aren't all that crazy about red oak acorns.Most lay on the ground to rot unless the turkeys pick them up.

wvdeer4u

The DD is extremely variable throughout the state. In the western counties they have been holding probably betwwen 70-100 dpsm for the last 10-15 years. But the land will only be able to withstand that for so long. that is why they need herd reduction to get it down to around 40-50 dpsm. In the mountain counties with mature forest the habitat can only hold between 10-15 dpsm and if the herd is at 20 then you need HR. I think as deaddeer said it is very good and important for the clear cutting as the regrowth provides a year round food source not just a 2-3 month food source.
The problem occurs when there is not a big enough clear cut to withstand the browsing or to many deer browsing on it that it can't properly regrow with hardwood timber. The better the habitat and the healthier the animal the more it reproduces and the more animals that need to be killed.

Buck Magnet

Ulysses,

I think you confuse BTB and I for being diehard PGC fans. Granted, there are things that we like but I know that I have problems with some of the stuff the PGC does, and I am pretty sure BTB does too.

Now, as far as what all could be done. Well, if the soil on the SGL's isn't good enough, fertilize and lime it. Then plant something for the deer. Afterall, hunters put alot of money into the PGC each year, and it is about time that they start seeing some rewards for it. Afterall, if they could improve the habitat, then a good deer density study and a accurate projection on what the carrying capacity is could be done and we could aim to keep deer levels there (which for alot of areas would mean that we could have more deer in the area than there currently are).

Planting corn on SGL's may sound like a good idea, but truthfully corn isn't all that beneficial to deer. I believe corn has a protein rating of around 12%. Now, plants such as rape, turnips, chickory, clover, alfalfa, ect... all have much high protein ratings also, they have a very fast regenerating period and they produce a huge amount of food each year!

My best-friend's uncle owns a farm here in Indiana County and he has it in a program where he has to keep it open to the general hunting public, and in return the PGC will "help" him out by sending him free food plot seed or stocking his farm with pheasents each year. This may sound like a good deal for him, but, the PGC will send a maximum of 30# of food plot seed yearly (probablly enough for 1/2-1 acre depending on the mix). The problem is that he would have to take time out of his busy schedule (farming along with be a foreman for a construction company), and spend that time tilling the ground, then he would have to purchase the fertilizers and lime with his own cash, till that into the ground, spread the seed and pack the ground. Alot of work for somebody who already doesn't have enough time in the day for his own work! Now, if the PGC would send out a crew to do the work, it might be worth it for him. Heck, this past August he gave my best-friend and I a blank check and told us to go pick up our own seed and we were gonna spend the weekend putting in a good food plot and that is what we did. He maybe saved $30 on seeds but that is it (and these seeds were probablly better than the mix the PGC sends).

If the PGC really wanted to help the land, they would plant food plots on SGL's (to help the deer through the winter when the browse gets low), and they could also fertilize the oaks in the woods in order to get a better acorn crop. Select clear cutting would also help by allowing areas to have some new-growth (which produces alot of food for deer). Also, you have to remember that no matter of food and bedding area is going to matter if there isn't a water source in a close distance. Putting in some small water holes wouldn't be a bad idea either! Adding variety to the food sources for the deer would be very beneficial. Deer have pretty much three sources of food in one year, corn/alflalfa/clover, acorns, and browse! The alfalfa and clover are good in the summer, and the acorns and corn are good for the fall, then the deer have browse left to get them through the winter and into the spring when green-up starts (and still they don't have any solid food source).

If the PGC was really worried, they would look at the fact that deer need to have a food source year round, not just half the year! I am pretty sure that deer would do MUCH less damage to the woods if they weren't forced to survive on browse for close to half a year!

wvdeer4u

All of the foodplots and habitat management benefits won't be seen though if there is too many deer. Deer numbers need to be managed and that is what the pgc is trying to do. If the game lands are being overhunted they should put the doe permits on a lottery like some of ours in WV and only allow so many be taken each year.

Sniper151

cardeer, I agree with you to a point. If they leave the white. red oaks and beechnuts the deer and other critters will have a basic food source. When a forest is selective cut you keep the mature food source and you also start ground level growth for additional neutrition. We recently selective cut 88 acres and the growth of small, ground level plants are springing up all over the area. By spring the area will offer more than acorns and beechnuts, there will be brouse for all the critters.

deaddeer

The same is true if there aren't enough deer left to benefit from the additional food.