CattNY

In Southern NY and Northeast PA, all I hear is hunters complaining about lack of deer sightings. I too wasn't thrilled with the activity I seen. Let's see, less deer, shoot more does, don't shoot young bucks, expand NY season for the full month of October, issue more doe tags, blah, blah, blah. The land doesn't look decimated by deer. WHAT ARE THE HIGHER UPS TRYING TO FIX AND WHY? I'm all for changes, for the better, but what goes, we're not seeing any deer or very few and they want us to kill more. With coyotes, multiple deer tags the whitetail is going to become as rare as cougars are in Southern NY.

ulysses

welcome to the club! All over Pa with the exception of the SW corner hunters are saying the same thing you are. Politics seems to be the answer here in Pa

atlasman

NY wants the deer herd slaughtered.........plain and simple. They perpetuate the myth that deer numbers are out of control and we need to kill more and more and more deer each year.

When my father was younger he would see deer in herds of 20-30 and think nothing of it........and you had to have 5 guys to get one PARTY permit for a single doe........Now if you see 3 deer together you are lucky.......and they will be mom and 2 little ones......and they will give doe tags out by the truck load.

There just aren't as many deer out there as the DEC is saying. Either they are very wrong with their data and think they are doing the right thing.........or they know the truth and have different motives behind their actions.

I think the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle as usual but I really have to question the wisdom of giving out so many tags each year in areas where it doesn't seem necessary.

cardeer

They are trying to fix there pockets ,so they can line them with more money from the timber companies. Sale of timber thats the new game. Shoot a tree save a deer

maytom

I agree with you!! Opening day I didn't even see a squirrel!! I use to see anywhere from 15-25 deer on opening day in years past. The deer numbers sure aren't there like they use to be. I think that an antler size restriction system like they have in PA would be good for NY, and far less doe permits as well!! I also feel that the insurance companies are fueling the amount of doe permits handed out by the DEC due to the amount of deer/car collisions.

NY Bowhunter

At this rate in about 5-10 years seeing a deer track in the woods would be considered a successful hunt.

ulysses

I am an old timer maybe too damm old for my own good. BUT when I was a kid growing up in Northampton Co. Pa IF you saw a deer track even a track an told some of the neighbors everyone knew about it and went to see it. There just weren't many deer in that area back then. The PGC was claiming all the deer were in the "deer capital of the world Potter county.
I've lived so damm long I've seen that change now the deer are overabundant in the southern tier and getting rarer in the NC part of the state.
To me that is plain ole MISMANAGEMENT of a species.

fastfire

The DEC is like you news they tell what they want you to hear not the whole truth.
I too can remember the old party permits . 5 hunters per permit or 1 land owner
with 40 arces or more + one other hunter.

Bottom line I think in NY is INS. CO. & deer related crashes.
Kick back you do this & we will give you X number of dollars you can do with as you wish.
As some think and others Know youts,cats,bears, & the good lord only knows what else.

shoot you local DEc officer & sav the deer

chickory

insurance companies are becoming as big a scapegoat as coyotes around here....

No, in pa it ain't insurance Co's, they get thier pay whether you hit a tree, a dog, a deer or guard rail. Makes no difference to them. Urban legend. how do we know? The head of Pa's deer managment has said publicly many times that insurance has never come to him and asked for anything.... but he will gladly tell you who has. Sportsman, who want to follow the fad of QDM and its hollow promises of big booners if you buy thier products for food plots, large timber companies like collins pine and Kane timber who do NOT want to have to spend any of thier money to replant trees after harvesting them for 150 years in pa. They are miffed that after taking from pa's forests for 150 years they might have to give something back in replanting or nutrients for the soil already stressed by acid rain. Conservationists are at EVERY Pa meeting asking for more help for bog turtles, allegheny wood rats, bats, eagles, otters, and they feel deer are taking money and habitat away from thier special interests. Heck even Pa's chapter donated money to Dr. Alts herd reduction program because they feel the herd is "out of control" and overpopulated. They are at every meeting urging more reductions and with those reductions will come thicker forests for turkeys.

Audubon in Pa is a powerfull lobby asking for herd reductions. Saying that the overabundance of deer in pa is causing problems for every other species in pa. And the old time guys at the PGC are looooong gone, now replaced by eco-weenies from PSU, some of whom don't even hunt. Audubon is just a convenient conservation group for hire. They donated 1.3 million dollars to the PA Game Commission to study herd reductions for pa, and thier largest contributer for that project was Theresa Heinzs' endowments. An environmental group very powerfull in Pa.

I have no idea what drives NY to reduce its herd, but in pa its ecological extremism from conservation groups, a few sportsman, Audubon, QDMA and big timber. (pa has the largest certified forests in the U.S.) Certified timber brings higher prices than normal timber sales. remember a few years ago when Home Depot was picketed by environmental groups for selling wood from forests that were not sustainable???? Well, with certification Home Depot has the eco-wacko's off thier backs and its was worth paying the higher premiums.

Do a search on "sustainable forestry" +pennsylvania +deer and read till your heart is content.... you might learns things you never imagined.


The fad of QDM is fading, as it has not produced anything close to what it promises, but the environmental and timber groups will still pressure the PGC for less deer to benefit the forest. Even if Gary Alt leaves PA, that pressure to reduce will still be there somewhat. They just won't have thier 'boy' Gary to be the hatchet man anymore and will have to find another lackey to do the dirty work of cutting the herd.

Sniper151

Catt Don't know about NY, but in Pa it's big bucks and I don't mean the four legged type. The Federal Government is the only group that pisses away more money then the PGC on projects that they shouldn't even be involved with. [:@]