EatsLead

I have read through the posts and I think we are giving the NY DEC way too much credit. They aren't plotting with insurance companies or timber companies. They simply use bad data and thus make bad decisions. We had a record doe in a kill in 2002, followed by the worst winter in a couple decades and yet everyone in my unit got 2 doe tags the following year with the explanation that "deer numbers will be slightly lower than last year". Slightly lower? How did they come up with this? We than had another historically large harvest in 2003 followed by another tough winter which has resulted in the reduced herd we have now. The DEC did slightly reduced the number of Doe tags this year but I think it was a year too late. I tend to think they are just ignorant of the actual herd numbers. Given the small staff and rumors of "you have to know somebody" to get a job, I am in no way surprised that the quality of the DEC's work is sub par.

Has the NY DEC publisized a target deer density?

hunter Leo

I have a question for you NY and PA guys who have have seen drastic decline in deer numbers where you hunt. I started hunting in fall of 98 and up till 02 hunting season it was glory times for me... opening day everyday of gun season i was gauranteed a deer. In 2001 I even bet a friend if he he sat in my stand and dragged some doe in heat to the stand he would get a buck... got me $50 on that bet. Last year was an off year from prior years when it came to deer numbers but there was still quite a few deer around along with acorns. This year was awful for deer, grouse and rabbit. Where you guys hunt is it just a bad year for you in general or has it been one bad year after another? If there is a trend and there is one bad year after another then something is wrong and needs to get done. I hope this is an off year for hunting and REALLY REALLY hope its not a sign of things to come.

deaddeer

This was not just an off year but just another in the 3 year decline in PA. Our PS herd peaked at 1.5 M in 2000, but due to high anterless harvests the herd has been reduced by 40% or more. Even if they reduce our anterless tag allocations by 200K next year it will still be more than enough to decrease our herd even further.

chickory

Leo, you are not going to get any relief soon. the decline in the last several years is, as deader pointed out a big decline in the herd in pa and it will take a smaller amount of tags in 2005 to reduce the OW herd again and continue the downward slide. The PGC will say how many years it would keep deer populations low, but some in Penn State circles are saying privately they may need to stay that way for 10 years before habitat show any apperciable signs of improvement. And there are a few legislators who do not want it to rebound ever, they prefer a small herd in pa for good.......

So it looks like the message being sent out, unofficially because the PGC changes every year what its doing based on many speical interest groups, is that we are looking at lower harvests for a long time to come.

I hope some changes are made, or there will be quite a few hunters who do not repeat last seasons fiasco.