some options the PGC should consider
12-16-2004, 06:22 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 377
some options the PGC should consider
since generally the majority of hunters in Pa are happy killing any buck and are becomming more vocal in their opposition to herd reductions just to appease the wishes of Alt/PGC and a minority of horn hunters. The time has come for the PGC to open their eyes to some other options to Pa's deer management.
I'll begin with few, feel free to add to the list. I a few days I'll copy them an see they get to Boscola (this was one of her suggestions when I spoke with her earlier this week):
1. go to a statewide shotgun only gun season ( replacing the current centerfire regulations)
2. smaller WMUs
3. open and close different WMU on different dates...create a northern deer zone and a southern, possibly expand that to include a eastern and western at a future date
4. put antler deer hunting on a lottery draw by WMU, allow no non resident antlered deer hunting for a specific time then open it to all applicants with a 10% cap on antlered tags reserved for non residents
5. charge the same for non resident back tag fees as other states charge for theirs. ex. if MT charges NR $1000 for a lnadowner sponsored deer tag Pa should charge a MT resident the same fee for the same tag.
6.online harvest reports as well as phone ins
7.allow landowners with 100+ continuous acres to manage their own herd provided that land or 50% of it is open to public hunting
8. a antler deer tag must be used on any male deer, if a mistaken kill is made an no anterless tag is held by the shooter a $25 accident kill fee will be imposed ( I know "who'll turn them in? the same guys that turn in a 4 pt buck now. the honest guy that's who)
feel free to add to the list . I WILL see Boscola and all Pa Game Commissioners get a copy and you can lay $$$ on that!!!!
I'll begin with few, feel free to add to the list. I a few days I'll copy them an see they get to Boscola (this was one of her suggestions when I spoke with her earlier this week):
1. go to a statewide shotgun only gun season ( replacing the current centerfire regulations)
2. smaller WMUs
3. open and close different WMU on different dates...create a northern deer zone and a southern, possibly expand that to include a eastern and western at a future date
4. put antler deer hunting on a lottery draw by WMU, allow no non resident antlered deer hunting for a specific time then open it to all applicants with a 10% cap on antlered tags reserved for non residents
5. charge the same for non resident back tag fees as other states charge for theirs. ex. if MT charges NR $1000 for a lnadowner sponsored deer tag Pa should charge a MT resident the same fee for the same tag.
6.online harvest reports as well as phone ins
7.allow landowners with 100+ continuous acres to manage their own herd provided that land or 50% of it is open to public hunting
8. a antler deer tag must be used on any male deer, if a mistaken kill is made an no anterless tag is held by the shooter a $25 accident kill fee will be imposed ( I know "who'll turn them in? the same guys that turn in a 4 pt buck now. the honest guy that's who)
feel free to add to the list . I WILL see Boscola and all Pa Game Commissioners get a copy and you can lay $$$ on that!!!!
12-16-2004, 06:50 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,358
RE: some options the PGC should consider
For any suggestion for change, I feel you should be able to identify the problem you are trying to solve with that suggestion, some of yours I would like to know what problem you are trying to fix.
Limit anterless tag to 1 per person.
You need to first decide what problem you are fixing, PA is doing two things at once and they get confused as to what they are trying to do, you need to keep them seperate:
- AR. Personally I don't have a problem with these, a 3pt/side is not trophy sized buck, its just letting the 1 year olds go.
- herd reduction. Good reasoning behind it, but where I hunt in Potter Co, its DONE. The brush/forest is nicely growing, there is left over food, both browse and mast, and deer sightings and killing numbers are WAY down.
--Bob
ORIGINAL: ulysses
1. go to a statewide shotgun only gun season ( replacing the current centerfire regulations)
Why? Granted there should be shotgun only zones for safety, but why state wide?
2. smaller WMUs
Absolutely!!
3. open and close different WMU on different dates...create a northern deer zone and a southern, possibly expand that to include a eastern and western at a future date
Do NOT do this. NH use to open north/south different times, the result is that hunters move with the changing dates resulting in MORE hunters in each area.
4. put antler deer hunting on a lottery draw by WMU, allow no non resident antlered deer hunting for a specific time then open it to all applicants with a 10% cap on antlered tags reserved for non residents
the problem is NOT the number of bucks, I actually agree with the AR, but keep it seperate from the heard reduction.
5. charge the same for non resident back tag fees as other states charge for theirs. ex. if MT charges NR $1000 for a lnadowner sponsored deer tag Pa should charge a MT resident the same fee for the same tag.
All states are not created equal, hunting opporatunity and animals to be hunted vary from state to state. What problem are you trying to solve?
7.allow landowners with 100+ continuous acres to manage their own herd provided that land or 50% of it is open to public hunting
Animals do not belong to the landowner and he sort of can manage it by posting his land, then requesting you to follow certain rules, again, what's the issue you are solving.
1. go to a statewide shotgun only gun season ( replacing the current centerfire regulations)
Why? Granted there should be shotgun only zones for safety, but why state wide?
2. smaller WMUs
Absolutely!!
3. open and close different WMU on different dates...create a northern deer zone and a southern, possibly expand that to include a eastern and western at a future date
Do NOT do this. NH use to open north/south different times, the result is that hunters move with the changing dates resulting in MORE hunters in each area.
4. put antler deer hunting on a lottery draw by WMU, allow no non resident antlered deer hunting for a specific time then open it to all applicants with a 10% cap on antlered tags reserved for non residents
the problem is NOT the number of bucks, I actually agree with the AR, but keep it seperate from the heard reduction.
5. charge the same for non resident back tag fees as other states charge for theirs. ex. if MT charges NR $1000 for a lnadowner sponsored deer tag Pa should charge a MT resident the same fee for the same tag.
All states are not created equal, hunting opporatunity and animals to be hunted vary from state to state. What problem are you trying to solve?
7.allow landowners with 100+ continuous acres to manage their own herd provided that land or 50% of it is open to public hunting
Animals do not belong to the landowner and he sort of can manage it by posting his land, then requesting you to follow certain rules, again, what's the issue you are solving.
You need to first decide what problem you are fixing, PA is doing two things at once and they get confused as to what they are trying to do, you need to keep them seperate:
- AR. Personally I don't have a problem with these, a 3pt/side is not trophy sized buck, its just letting the 1 year olds go.
- herd reduction. Good reasoning behind it, but where I hunt in Potter Co, its DONE. The brush/forest is nicely growing, there is left over food, both browse and mast, and deer sightings and killing numbers are WAY down.
--Bob
12-16-2004, 07:04 AM
#3
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 170
RE: some options the PGC should consider
Agreed that smaller WMUs would be a good idea. Management ideally should be done specific to the particular ecosystem (farmland vs. forest) that you're dealing with. When a WMU crosses those boundaries, one of the two will suffer.
The "majority of PA hunters" are also just looking for something to shoot without any regard for the health of the herd. The intention of these measures is to increase the health of the herd in balance with the rest of the environment. A healthy balance does NOT mean the population gets managed so that everyone gets to shoot a buck. Suck it up. Don't look to the state to provide you a guaranteed kill.
The "majority of PA hunters" are also just looking for something to shoot without any regard for the health of the herd. The intention of these measures is to increase the health of the herd in balance with the rest of the environment. A healthy balance does NOT mean the population gets managed so that everyone gets to shoot a buck. Suck it up. Don't look to the state to provide you a guaranteed kill.
12-16-2004, 07:08 AM
#4
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 377
RE: some options the PGC should consider
Bob you wouldn't be Bt bowhunter's alter ego would you?
I don't care if you are just wondering that's all.
Here is some of my logic:1 less buck kill with shotguns also many areas that are currently open to centerfire really shouldn't be as today they are suburbia compared to when the regs were written
3. this is exactly what we want, more access to over abundant doe herds. 4.seems to work in mosat midwestern states. 5. everyone pays on the same equal playing field. 7.opening more posted land to public access. also more access to land that have overabundant doe herds
I don't care if you are just wondering that's all.
Here is some of my logic:1 less buck kill with shotguns also many areas that are currently open to centerfire really shouldn't be as today they are suburbia compared to when the regs were written
3. this is exactly what we want, more access to over abundant doe herds. 4.seems to work in mosat midwestern states. 5. everyone pays on the same equal playing field. 7.opening more posted land to public access. also more access to land that have overabundant doe herds
12-16-2004, 07:21 AM
#5
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 377
RE: some options the PGC should consider
grizzly; this thread isn't meant to have me post then defend my options. if you have some post them the final list WILL be presented to those I have mentioned.
allow me to say this in response to your suck it comment. you are correct no one should look to the PGC to guarrantee a kill in a healthy herd situation. but EVERYONE should look to the PGC if they have allowed the deer density levels to slip too low in some WMU or even within some parts of certain WMUs and the PGC does not react to amend those mistakes.
allow me to say this in response to your suck it comment. you are correct no one should look to the PGC to guarrantee a kill in a healthy herd situation. but EVERYONE should look to the PGC if they have allowed the deer density levels to slip too low in some WMU or even within some parts of certain WMUs and the PGC does not react to amend those mistakes.
12-16-2004, 08:33 AM
#6
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 170
RE: some options the PGC should consider
ulysses-
Okay, but how low is too low? My point is only that what is too low a population for what hunters want may be different than what the area can properly support. Agreed, the PGC should be approached and questioned just like any other part of government.
Yer right - no need to hijack this thread if that's not the intent. I'll be happy to carry over to PM if you'd like.
Okay, but how low is too low? My point is only that what is too low a population for what hunters want may be different than what the area can properly support. Agreed, the PGC should be approached and questioned just like any other part of government.
Yer right - no need to hijack this thread if that's not the intent. I'll be happy to carry over to PM if you'd like.
12-16-2004, 08:55 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Warren PA USA
Posts: 1,512
RE: some options the PGC should consider
1. go to a statewide shotgun only gun season ( replacing the current centerfire regulations)
Why? In SRA's it isn't a bad idea...don't they already have that in effect anyways? There is no real reason to allow shotgun only in some places like the ANF where I hunt....it's all woods, no houses or people other than hunter there most of the time.
2. smaller WMUs
Total agreement from me on this one.
3. open and close different WMU on different dates...create a northern deer zone and a southern, possibly expand that to include a eastern and western at a future date
Again, why?
4. put antler deer hunting on a lottery draw by WMU, allow no non resident antlered deer hunting for a specific time then open it to all applicants with a 10% cap on antlered tags reserved for non residents.
Why? You're trying to make changes here to something that isn't broken. Show a need for these changes and maybe they'll be considered.
5. charge the same for non resident back tag fees as other states charge for theirs. ex. if MT charges NR $1000 for a lnadowner sponsored deer tag Pa should charge a MT resident the same fee for the same tag.
Most states charge aroudn the same for nonres of neighboring states. Why should I care about the handfull of people that come here from far away states?
6.online harvest reports as well as phone ins
This is in the works and reports from Harrisburg say it should be in effect necxt season...finally, advancement!
7.allow landowners with 100+ continuous acres to manage their own herd provided that land or 50% of it is open to public hunting
Why should it have to be open to the public? Landowners should be able to manage their land however they want....posted or not, kill whay they want, etc. It is their land, not mine or yours.
8. a antler deer tag must be used on any male deer, if a mistaken kill is made an no anterless tag is held by the shooter a $25 accident kill fee will be imposed ( I know "who'll turn them in? the same guys that turn in a 4 pt buck now. the honest guy that's who)
What is this solving? Keeping a doe from being shot, true? It's getting to the point of being nit-picky though. I would propose an either sex tag before this....any deer get tagged with the EST. Button, doe, buck whatever gets the same tag, but only one tag per hunter with exception of additional antlerless only tags available in certain areas....like DMAP.
Like has been stated by others, you need to justify these proposed changes. I'm all about making changes where needed, but there needs to be a reason and a valid one at that. Just some constructive criticism.
Why? In SRA's it isn't a bad idea...don't they already have that in effect anyways? There is no real reason to allow shotgun only in some places like the ANF where I hunt....it's all woods, no houses or people other than hunter there most of the time.
2. smaller WMUs
Total agreement from me on this one.
3. open and close different WMU on different dates...create a northern deer zone and a southern, possibly expand that to include a eastern and western at a future date
Again, why?
4. put antler deer hunting on a lottery draw by WMU, allow no non resident antlered deer hunting for a specific time then open it to all applicants with a 10% cap on antlered tags reserved for non residents.
Why? You're trying to make changes here to something that isn't broken. Show a need for these changes and maybe they'll be considered.
5. charge the same for non resident back tag fees as other states charge for theirs. ex. if MT charges NR $1000 for a lnadowner sponsored deer tag Pa should charge a MT resident the same fee for the same tag.
Most states charge aroudn the same for nonres of neighboring states. Why should I care about the handfull of people that come here from far away states?
6.online harvest reports as well as phone ins
This is in the works and reports from Harrisburg say it should be in effect necxt season...finally, advancement!
7.allow landowners with 100+ continuous acres to manage their own herd provided that land or 50% of it is open to public hunting
Why should it have to be open to the public? Landowners should be able to manage their land however they want....posted or not, kill whay they want, etc. It is their land, not mine or yours.
8. a antler deer tag must be used on any male deer, if a mistaken kill is made an no anterless tag is held by the shooter a $25 accident kill fee will be imposed ( I know "who'll turn them in? the same guys that turn in a 4 pt buck now. the honest guy that's who)
What is this solving? Keeping a doe from being shot, true? It's getting to the point of being nit-picky though. I would propose an either sex tag before this....any deer get tagged with the EST. Button, doe, buck whatever gets the same tag, but only one tag per hunter with exception of additional antlerless only tags available in certain areas....like DMAP.
Like has been stated by others, you need to justify these proposed changes. I'm all about making changes where needed, but there needs to be a reason and a valid one at that. Just some constructive criticism.
12-16-2004, 09:06 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Warren PA USA
Posts: 1,512
RE: some options the PGC should consider
Here's one thread about the online reporting, but I'm trying to get more info as I know I read more about it, but can't find the information.
http://www.huntingpa.com/ubbthreads/.../page/3#289906
http://www.huntingpa.com/ubbthreads/.../page/3#289906
12-16-2004, 09:08 AM
#10
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 377
RE: some options the PGC should consider
jason apparently you read the post about BH & BT you should have read further for some answers to your questions.
you got suggestions? list them I won't pick them apart. The thread is meant to enlist some different viewpoints, all WILL be submitted. you don't like mine fine lets see yours
you got suggestions? list them I won't pick them apart. The thread is meant to enlist some different viewpoints, all WILL be submitted. you don't like mine fine lets see yours