ulysses

wasn't it just a couple years ago that after YEARS of research to the opposite Alt reversed himself and said BLACK BEARS are a major predator of fawns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ODD isn't it that was just after be went from BEAR biologist to DEER biologist??? That liar can't even cover his own lies anymore.
Now state biologists are trying to convince us 'yotes don't have a major impact on fawns, hmmmmmmmmmmmm think I'll pass my judgement on past lies.

fastfire

Must be you don't spend a lot of time in the outdoors or your is in
it's own little world.

Think about this!!!!!!
As yout population grows so does the need for food- fact.
Youts will take the easiest meal it can get - fact.
A new born fawn is a very easy meal-fact.

A new born to 2 mounths old are an easy meal for a yout
and mom will leave them for a short time & if you don't belive that ask a farmer how many fawns he has run tru his haybind or almost has.

I'm not blaming youts for all the deer herd problems but in my area
as the yout population got bigger over the years the deer herd seemed to shrink.
There may be other reasons for it but over hunting in my area is not one of them.

liquidorange

those damn yotes pounce on the deer in the winter deer yards of maine from what ive read they will kill for play like mousing.

Champlain Islander

I have never seen that from coyotes but domestic dogs are a different matter. The worst killers are often the neighborhood pet that is allowed to run. They kill and leave the dead deer.

WNY Bowhunter

Tim, I'm not saying that we had a major disease crisis this past year in NY, I'm saying that it's one of the things that can have a major impact on the deer pop. A few fall ago an outbreak of EHD took out and estimated 50% of the whitetail herd in regions of Montana. I live in the county and some nights you can go out on the front porch and here coyotes in every direction. We've heard them around here like this for well over 10 yrs. I'm out in the woods every chance that I can get in the spring either turkey hunting or shed hunting that and I've never found an overly large amount of dead deer. I'm sure that a vast majority of the ones that I have found were shot by hunters and unrecovered. They are real easy pickings for a hungry coyote then. As far as the turkey pop. around here is concerned, its definately down from where it was in the mid-1990's but I believe that it has alot to do with the poor hatching conditions that have occured over the past several years not coyote predation. Biologists claim that the turkey pop. can drop by nearly 50% in just one year based on the outcome of the hatch. We've been seeing fewer woodchucks too, but that's because all of the prime hayfields around here have been converted into corn over the past several years.

Cougar,

Here's some basic biology for you. I've heard of this coyote breeding with red wolf theory several times from people. Just so that you know....according to my field guide of North American Mammals, a red wolf is a small coyote-sized wolf (40-70lbs) that is found in the south/southwest. They are highly endangered in the wild, almost to the point of being exterpated from their entire native range. If coyotes are trying to breed with red wolves in the wild...they must be having an pretty hard time finding companionship...that is, unless the DEC has been releasing red wolves into the wild. Even then, how would northern coyotes breeding with a small species of wolf that evolved in the south make our northern coyotes bigger and stronger? If wolf / coyote hybridizing has occured and created a race of super coyotes it would have had to have been with the large, northern GRAY wolf which is the common wolf that everyone thinks of. Even then, the closest pop. that I'm aware of is found in the northern most reaches of the upper midwest (MN, WI, MI) and canada. The reason that our northern coyotes are so much larger here in the north than they are in the south is due to a phenomenon known as Bergmann's Rule which dictates that mammals in northern climate have evolved to have more body mass in order to minimize bodily heat loss in harsh northern climates. It's the same for whitetails. That's why the deer found in Saskatchewan and Alberta (the northern most and coldest reaches of the whitetail's range) can reach 300-400 lbs, while those deer in the warmer south in areas like TX (although the same species---Odeocoileus virgininanius) normally only reach a fraction of that size.

Fastfire,

I agree with what you say about larger coyote pop. needing lots of food and coyotes preying on the easiest prey they can get and it's true that a newborn fawn is pretty much helpless to the advances of a hungry coyote. Coyotes certainly do take a fair number of fawns throughout the spring / early summer...but the idea of coyotes killing almost every fawn in the woods is ridiculous. Coyote predation on fawns is just nature's way of thinning out the surplus of the fawn crop. That's why does in good habitat usually have twins to compensate for anticipated natural mortality on the fawns. The reason that farmers get so many fawns while chopping hay isn't because the fawns are totally helpless, but rather because a fawns main defense against predators is laying still and allowing their spotted coat to act as camouflauge until the threat passes by. When the farm machinery gets to close the fawns just see it as another predator and usually hold their ground until it's too late to escape. As far a coyotes go, think about it...if coyotes ate all of the fawns every year, the deer pop would crash within a few years and then in turn so would the the coyote pop. I'm beginning to think that alot of folks believe that there are actually more coyotes in the state than there are deer. The rules of nature dictate that there has to be adequate food sources available for a predator pop. to grow and thrive. If coyotes ate mostly deer and the deer pop. was being thinned out too much up to the point that there weren't enough deer around to feed all of the coyotes, then the lack of prey would cause the coyote pop. to suffer as a result.

Like I said earlier: There's no question that coyotes do in fact kill and eat deer...the more deer that are around the more that coyotes will have the opportunity to take, but the diet of a coyote is very similar to that of a fox which is composed mostly of mice and other small mammals. That's why areas that experience a large increase in the coyote pop. usually experience a similar decrease in the fox pop. due to the larger, stronger coyotes outcompeting the foxes for food (I don't think foxes take too many deer). Predator-Prey relationships are very complex cycles with lots of variables.

I don't live too far from you (about 1/2 hour east of Hornell in Steuben County) and I agree that the deer hunting this year sucked over most of the Region. Last year wasn't that great either (2002 was probably the best take I've ever seen around here) and I don't know why...I saw plenty of deer and videoed lots of nice bucks in velvet around the area for the past couple of summers. This year, once bow season got here most of the deer just seemed to vanish. It was really wierd. During gun season we do alot of deer drives and saw tons of tracks and sign but never really got on the deer that made them. Personally, I think that our main problem was that our best hunting land which is about 250 acres of the thickest, nastiest bedding cover in the entire area was put off limits this year (the guy that owns it wanted to make it into a sanctuary for deer)and the deer really stacked in there and never left the security until dark. I think that alot of bucks made it through season this year which it pretty unusually for this area. We should see some really nice 2 and 3 yr. olds and maybe even a few 4 yr. old bucks around next year. I've been out bowhunting for the past few days and there are deer tracks all over the place! We can only hope that things will be better next season. I just think that too many people are jumping the gun and blaming the entire lack of deer sitings on predation from coyotes

WNY Bowhunter

They can definately do some damage to a deer herd in that situation, but that isn't the case for my area here in the western finger lakes of NY, our winters aren't nearly as severe as they are in other regions of the state and northeat.

White_Farm

Well I'm not blaming EVERYTHING on the coyotes, just saying that I think they have more of an impact then alot of people give them credit for (or discredit however you want to think of it).

Allseasonhunter7

should i hunt them afternoon(like 2-dark) or morning

hunter Leo

I noticed that this year and last year there was no sign of coyotes. The prior years you heard the coyotes at night howling especially after sunset. 3 years ago me and my friend were bow hunting the last day. As soon as the sun started to set we heard the coyotes start howling from all sides of us. We climbed down and packed out treestands. They were less then 100 yards from us and kept howling. From the time we left the tree stands till we got out of the woods the howling never got anymore distant. Everyone says that coyotes are afraid of people but im not saying we were stalked but the howls never got anymore distant from our departure. The past 2 years deer populations had a drastic decline along with rabbit along with coyotes. I'm gonna experiment with some coyote hunting this winter to see what is or isnt out there.

biggbuks

Did anyone here about the WOLF that was shot in Wayne county during buck season? Heard this from a good source !! The wolf was well over 100#'s and had a BRASS tag in it's ear. It was mistaken for a coyote and shot. The hunter reported it to the PGC when the tag was spotted on it's ear.
Never heard another thing about it!!!! Imagine That !!!!!!!!