No deer in PA or are they..................
 

just getting wiser? I've been reading down through some of the threads and have noticed that a lot of people haven't been seeing the number of deer that they have seen in previous years in PA. Although I think the herd has been greatly reduced I don't think they (the numbers) are at record lows. I'm not going to sit here and tell you guys/ladies what you don't already know, and tell you that you are wrong and I am right because everybody has different styles and different beliefs on how to hunt the ever so elusive whitetail deer. The first couple of days I didn't see near as many deer as I did in previous years and obviously the deer herd (as previously stated) has been greatly reduced due to the "assault" laid upon the herd the last two years but after trying my "traditional" techniques such as hunting close to feeding areas and/or rubs and sitting on the deer's normal everyday paths and funnels and not seeing deer, I began to wonder if I was ever going to see deer. I scratched my head and sat in deep thought as to what the samhell is going on here. After hours of pondering I realized that the numbers aren't the only factor coming into play this year. #1 the weather pattern has been an odd one to say the least. Rain instead of snow, 40's and 50's instead of teens and 20's, thunder, lighting and wind instead of, well, snow showers. I think this is the main factor. The deer are content with climbing into the thickets and just laying down and since it's been raining, a lot of people (not necassarily you and I) aren't getting into the woods and when they do, they aren't moving thus the deer stay bedded down in the daylight hours and move only at night. After realizing this, that's where I headed............into the thickets where no hunter ever really wants to venture. Well, that's where they were at but there was only one problem, I could only here them running away and never saw them and when I say them it sounded like atleast ten jumping out at a time. Which brings me to my next point. With no snow on the ground, wet leaves, and high winds, there could be deer walking 75-100 yards away from you and you won't ever see them. Infact, I kicked some deer out to my father and they had to run right past him and he never heard or saw them. They are calling for snow (maybe) in the early hours of the morning so if there is snow on the ground, I'm almost certain that people will see more deer.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

Like everyone realizes it depends where in the state your hunting. It is a big state with varied habitates

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

if they are just smarter, and not being shot, then that means our plans to reduce the herd (the essence of our mgmt plan) are failing.

And I don't think the PGC, who said they want to reduce the herd, is going to allow the herd to grow when they said over and over thier goal is to reduce.

Obviously you have not thought out your "they're just smarter" theory.

In a deer mgmt plan with herd reductions (and we are in the 4th year of one), you will have lower sightings, and lower harvests. It is after all why they call it herd reduction.

Heres a mathematical presentation to help you with the arithmetic issues we face:

less deer = less deer.

Get it?

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

The weather pattern is always odd. It's either too warm, too windy, too rainy, too snowy, too cold, etc. The deer ain't any smarter, they didn't start behaving different. Yes crop rotation/mast production changes from year to year and can change deer patterns as well, but in some areas there really are far less deer.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

Smarter = warier , I notice in PA and W Va as soon as you stop your vehicle , before you even have to open a door they are scurrying away, which tells me one thing, roadhunters,jacklighters, poachers, whatever you call them are making them a little warier.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

They're no smarter.If they were,we wouldn't be harvesting such a high perentage of 2.5 year old bucks.Besides,regardless of how smart any animal is,they still leave sign,something that is non-existant in many places.I went out for a little while yesterday.As I snuck up to the side of a ravine,I caught a huge buck bedded down on a small bench on the opposite side.My buddy hunted this buck hard all archery season,he has at least a 24 inch spread.Unfortuanely for me,I killed a buck in archery season so all I could do was watch as he got up to stretch not 75 yards away.I still hunted in the wet leaves until 1:30 and neer saw another deer until I got to within 200 yards of my house.Two doe stood there not 30 yards away but the shot wasn't safe.

I've heard every theory on why guys aren't seeing deer this year.So far the mast crop,weather,failure to hunt new areas and now increased IQ level are the reasons for less deer.I would say 4 years of greatly increased allocation not to mention 9 more days to use those tags has greatly reduced the deer herd.Imagine that,less deer does in fact =less deer.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

now if only Gary Alt would get that theory less deer = less deer and cut back on doe tags in some WMUs. Doesn't seem like it is too hard a theory to grasp for a DR. , is it ALT

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

I'm sure he grasps it, I don't think they have the energy to have different regs and season lengths for individual WMU's. That's what we really need micro-management of smaller WMU's!!!!

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

herdhunter
my experience exactly. spent two days sitting by a rub line & nothing. spent one day crawling thru underbrush on my belly-flushed 'em everywhere, but couldnt get a shot

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

Herdhunter I agree with you in a way. I believe the other hunters in the north and northeast that aren't seeing the number of deer. They know their area - at least most of them do.
During archery I seen many deer. I kept a log of what I seen each day. The numbers were pretty good until later on after the muzzleloader and small game hunters began moving around. We had corn planted on the neighboring farm for the first time since we've lived here. So the deer here changed their patterns drastically. They were bedding in the corn and not in our woods like they used to. Once the corn was cut some of the deer (I believe the young ones) began to bed on top of this hill that is thick with vines and brambles. I began to only see very young deer. Where did all the adult deer go?
Opening day there was a lot of shooting but it has been sporadic to quiet since. I've seen some deer here and there but nothing like the last couple of years. It is not because there are no deer here. There is one local farm which I can see from the hill on our property. Most evenings there are from 10 to 35 deer there. Several of the deer are shootable bucks and there is even a 12 pointer which shows up sometimes. One afternoon I watched the hunters leave the woods from this property and the deer showed up a half hour later. They must have a good hiding place where they can see when it is safe to come out. Apparently these deer know it is not safe anywhere else.
I've run into several different hunters driving ours and neighboring properties. They aren't seeing much and I laugh and tell them to go check out the farm over there. They then know what I'm talking about. It is the same thing where we hunt in Allegheny and Washington Cos. You either see nothing or a herd of 10 to 20. And even then the deer are not in any of the usual places.
If you guys in the north and northeast have dwindling numbers of deer then no wonder you aren't seeing anything. What little deer you do have must be hiding in a really hard to get to place.
Well, one more day then I can catch up on some rest....

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

What kind of energy is needed for this? They already do it for turkey.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

Actually I think that some of you took my post the wrong way, the "wiser" comment was to attract attention to the subject, but if you read more into depth I said that the weather was the main factor and not because it changed the deer's behavior, because it changed human behavior. On your average December day in Pennsylvania, there is usually atleast some snow on the ground and is pretty cold. We all know that the snow makes it a heck of a lot easier to see deer, infact today I had a deer 20 yards away from me standing in some slashings and I didn't see it until it snorted at me. As far as the warmer than normal weather is concerned, hunters aren't up and moving around trying to get warm hence nobody is moving the deer. Where I live and hunt, the deer have to be moved or else they'll head to the thickets as soon as the first shot is heard opening day and they'll stay there until they are forced out. That was my point.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

My observations from this year.....(Bradford County)

* In archery season deer where everywhere where I hunt.
* Rifle season 1st day I saw 9 of which 1 was a buck that I could not tell how big it was cause he was in the brush and a couple of the does where huge!!.
*We hunt the 2nd week and we had snow one afternoon. Very few tracks but lots of deer sign.
* Little or no mast crop this year. BUT there were acorns on the ridgetops only none on the sides of the mountains, and that was were there was alot of deer and sign (on top). In areas alot of the previously timbered land has grown up to the point there is nothing for the deer to eat. (Pole timber) In those areas there is little or no deer sign at all.
*We also found the deer in the "THICK" brush. We drove one section of thick slashings and there were deer everywhere. Trying to get one by a watcher in that thick stuff is another story.

We ended up with 1 buck and 6 doe taken the 2nd week out of 7 guys. The buck scored 123 It was an 8 point with a a 18" spread, 10 inch g2's and 5-1'4" bases. This was the largest buck I have ever taken out of camp in 25 years of huntin up there. Now I saw numerous basket racked 8's. 7's and 6's in archery season. To my knowlege none of these deer were taken. Various camps in the area had fewer deer hanging. Most that did had Nice bucks and few does because our area does not have alot of doe hunting being done. All together on the game lands the 2nd week I saw 2 different vehicles parked !! thats it! n Little or no huntin pressure except for the first 2.5 days. Hardly anyone was out on either saturday!!

Are there fewer deer?? In our area maybe but I dont think so. I think they are concentrated in Thick cover, Ridgetops where there are acorns and ALot of deer moved off the mountain to the farm land where they were feeding in hayfields at night. We saw 3 buck at night in the head lights!!

I get a kick out of the numerous people in our area who come up to their camps....Shoot 20 times in to sight there rifle in on Sunday, spend the day walking thru the woods looking for there "spot", riding there 4 wheelers around all day (cant anyone walk more than a 100 yards anymore) then go up 100 yards behind camp, not see any deer and presume....Ah no deer this year, doe huntin killed them all????????
(AND I HEARD THIS ALOT THIS YEAR!!!!!)

Yah it was a tougher huntin this year...but we killed just as many as we always do. We just hunted till we found em and did not give up.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

I noticed that too about campers................I've said that for years about them shooting round after round on Sunday, tromping through the woods not only on foot but with four-wheelers and one other thing, the cars are lined up down the road at night spotting. lmfao, it's nuts. as soon as all of this starts happening, the deer who have experienced it before run for cover and don't look back. It's simply amazing.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

herdhunter you mentioned not seeing many hunters on gamelands after the first couple of days of rifle and very few on either Saturdays. What you did not mention is how many did you see on there blasting does in early MZ and archery seasons?
Was a time when you got 1 deer a year no matter what and that was IF you were lucky to draw a doe tag. hunbters went out in archery then waited to rifle to hunt buck than waited to hunt doe and then waited for the post Christmas seasons to try again for that 1 deer.
Nowadays deer can be hunted 365 days a yr in some places and with improvement and season lenghts in archery gear does are harvested easier not to mention scoped inlines in early MZ season. Most anyone draws at least 2 tags if they want them for doe. All to harvest more doe PRE RUT.
could be why you're not seeing more hunters after the first 2.5 days of rifle deer
Sure there are deer left and they are hiding...you'd be too if you had hunters trying to reduce you to 'burger 12 months a year. I got snow on the ground right now on the farm. Drove around the patch this morning know how many tracks I saw???? 2 sets 1 big 1 fawn. and these were coming out of a corn field I left standing for them for feed. 5-10 yrs ago I would've seen 75 sets of tracks in that field. now tell me the PGC isn't issuing too many doe tags in 3A

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

Oh there is no question that the herd has been drastically reduced and I am not saying that it was right, infact I'm pretty darned upset about it myself. I was just trying to stress the fact that there are still deer out there, just not as many. I'm hoping that the numbers increase for next year, because I don't know very many people that shot a deer this year. Maybe next year we'll see more............hopefully. I don't care what they (dr alt & the pgc) this is not healthy. I don't know about your area, but I also noticed that the squirrell population is nil where I live. I've seen a total of two grey squirrels since small game started.

RE: No deer in PA or are they..................
 

Right on the Money Ulysses,and if Practices do not change between the Hunters or the Nazi Game Commission, we will not have to worry about Deer Hunting being a Part of our Culture ever again, because there will be none, except on Pay to Shoot Killing Grounds! Say what they will, the Insurance Companys have a Lot of Pull, and are Pressuring the Lawmakers to Eradicate the Whitetail Deer in Pa! Since the Beginning of Archery Season, till the End of Rifle, I seen Very Few Deer, and only several Buck, that One now calls my Freezer Home! What are we going to do? Who will Stop buying the Lisences? The only way to be Heard and be Heard Loudly, is to take the Money from the Lisence sales out of their Pockets! We need a Grass Routes Movement to Stop Hunting in the Keystone Sate, unless they Re Vamp the Flawed System.Most of the Hunters that iv talked to, want More Deer, not Bigger Racks! Who eats the Racks anyway? Id end this Post by saying to you, Good Hunting, but this is a Phrase that will become a Dinosaur,by which it's existance will only be left in the Tracks of our Imagination.