Pa Hunters, Boycott doe tags in'05
12-05-2004, 05:46 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 171
Pa Hunters, Boycott doe tags in'05
From everbody's input that I have received, we DO NEED TO DO SOMETHING AS SPORTSMAN, TO SAVE OUR DEER HUNTING IN PA!! I suggest we start a poll, either in this forum, or write to the "PENNSYLVANIA OUTDOOR NEWS", and let the PGC know what are intensions are. I think our voice will be heard, if they realize that dollar signs are at risk. Alot of hunters that I have spoken too, believe that the insurance companies are putting the squeeze to our politicians, in turn putting the grip around the game commissions neck. Let's see who has a better grip, the politicians or the sportsman, who pay their wages and decide their future.....
12-05-2004, 08:50 PM
#2
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: Pa Hunters, Boycott doe tags in'05
If you think it has anything to do with insurance companies, you are out in the weeds and won't be taken seriously in Harrisburg. Sorry to be blunt but you need to do a lot of more research before busting off to politicians and the PGC about deer management being driven by insurance companies.
Case in point. no insurance company has ever appeared before the PGC asking for reduced deer numbers. Gary Alt spoke to it in the 2004 Audubon conference on deer overabundance where the state reps and executive directors of several agencies spoke.
States like michigan exceed Pa in deer/car accidents by nearly 50% (45,000 to Mich 65,000) yet no one is calling on Mich to cut thier herd in half. And no insurance companies are in pa either. Why? because the insurance company makes money everytime an accident occurs, not matter who causes it. They get thier money thru the premiums you pay. They always get thier money$$$ whether we have 900,000 deer or 1.9 million deer.
But we do know who DOES appear and lobby the PGC and the state legislators. Timber companies which derive hundreds of millions of $$ from Pa hardwood lumber sold at premium prices around the world. Most of pa timber is not even sold in the US. Its expeorted for more money than it would sell here. Pa has the largest 'certified' sustainable forest in the country. And certified timber sells at premium prices.
Just do a yahoo search on "sustainable forestry" +Pennsylvania and read on....
And of course conservationists which have always thrived in Pa along with a few sportsmans groups have ASKED for herd reductions. The PANWTF and the PA trappers association both endorse lower deer numbers for pa and "scientific deer management" along with the luke warm support of the PFSC's who pretty much support everything the PGC does without question historically.
But conservationists are the ones who donated 1.3 million dollars to the PGC to start herd reductions and study the effects, not insurance companies!
The Audubon Society has sponsored two "Pa Deer overabundance" conferences in Harrisburg 1999 and 2004 which brought all the parties interested in less deer together to talk about how they would cut the herd in half to save Pa's ecosystem.
And of course the Pa Farm Bureau also wants as few deer as DCNR.
Not surprisingly the conference was not sponsored by Insurance Companies....
http://www.hfca.com/deerconfsummary.html
This is just a summary of the conference, the actual minutes are
http://pecpa.org/_final_pec/html/_ne...renceTrans.htm
Your not up against insurance companies pal, your up against some of the greatest environmental extremests Pa can offer.......
Case in point. no insurance company has ever appeared before the PGC asking for reduced deer numbers. Gary Alt spoke to it in the 2004 Audubon conference on deer overabundance where the state reps and executive directors of several agencies spoke.
States like michigan exceed Pa in deer/car accidents by nearly 50% (45,000 to Mich 65,000) yet no one is calling on Mich to cut thier herd in half. And no insurance companies are in pa either. Why? because the insurance company makes money everytime an accident occurs, not matter who causes it. They get thier money thru the premiums you pay. They always get thier money$$$ whether we have 900,000 deer or 1.9 million deer.
But we do know who DOES appear and lobby the PGC and the state legislators. Timber companies which derive hundreds of millions of $$ from Pa hardwood lumber sold at premium prices around the world. Most of pa timber is not even sold in the US. Its expeorted for more money than it would sell here. Pa has the largest 'certified' sustainable forest in the country. And certified timber sells at premium prices.
Just do a yahoo search on "sustainable forestry" +Pennsylvania and read on....
And of course conservationists which have always thrived in Pa along with a few sportsmans groups have ASKED for herd reductions. The PANWTF and the PA trappers association both endorse lower deer numbers for pa and "scientific deer management" along with the luke warm support of the PFSC's who pretty much support everything the PGC does without question historically.
But conservationists are the ones who donated 1.3 million dollars to the PGC to start herd reductions and study the effects, not insurance companies!
The Audubon Society has sponsored two "Pa Deer overabundance" conferences in Harrisburg 1999 and 2004 which brought all the parties interested in less deer together to talk about how they would cut the herd in half to save Pa's ecosystem. And of course the Pa Farm Bureau also wants as few deer as DCNR.
Not surprisingly the conference was not sponsored by Insurance Companies....
http://www.hfca.com/deerconfsummary.html
This is just a summary of the conference, the actual minutes are
http://pecpa.org/_final_pec/html/_ne...renceTrans.htm
Your not up against insurance companies pal, your up against some of the greatest environmental extremests Pa can offer.......
12-06-2004, 07:02 AM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 377
RE: Pa Hunters, Boycott doe tags in'05
chickory: what we as sportsmen/women of Pa are up against is greed! Greed among our own ranks, the same greed that fosters not being happy with a spike or just killing 1 doe in areas of the state that have already reduced deer numbers.
Talk overabundance of deer and most times it is the hunters of Pa's western counties and suburbia that speak the loudest. Any fool should know by now that those are the problem areas and the remainder of the state has depressed deer numbers. Until Alt is willing to aknowledge this and drastically cut back those areas of the state that have lowered deer numbers to a point that is now questionable, it will be the hunters themselves that must just stop pulling the trigger. Sadly way too many of them cry loudly about lack of deer yet they keep fireing away trying to justify their actions.
GREED...IS A MAJOR PROBLEM IN DEER MANAGEMENT...I'm willing to bet most everyone on this board knows at least 1 hunter that kills multiple deer with tags every year. Couple that with a hunting child or two in the same family filling a few tags and what you have is GREED...a mentality of " I got mine who cares about those other nimwits that can't get theirs" this ismusually the same guy that kills his limit of trout everyday trying to vainly justify it by saying " well I bought the trout stamp and if I don't kill them an give them away someone else will"
GREEDY SLOBS in my book!
Talk overabundance of deer and most times it is the hunters of Pa's western counties and suburbia that speak the loudest. Any fool should know by now that those are the problem areas and the remainder of the state has depressed deer numbers. Until Alt is willing to aknowledge this and drastically cut back those areas of the state that have lowered deer numbers to a point that is now questionable, it will be the hunters themselves that must just stop pulling the trigger. Sadly way too many of them cry loudly about lack of deer yet they keep fireing away trying to justify their actions.
GREED...IS A MAJOR PROBLEM IN DEER MANAGEMENT...I'm willing to bet most everyone on this board knows at least 1 hunter that kills multiple deer with tags every year. Couple that with a hunting child or two in the same family filling a few tags and what you have is GREED...a mentality of " I got mine who cares about those other nimwits that can't get theirs" this ismusually the same guy that kills his limit of trout everyday trying to vainly justify it by saying " well I bought the trout stamp and if I don't kill them an give them away someone else will"
GREEDY SLOBS in my book!
12-06-2004, 01:19 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: Pa Hunters, Boycott doe tags in'05
Sounds good in theory but you will get very little response from hunters. The "I got mine" mentality is reaching epidemic proportions in PA. Legions of PA hunters will complain of falling deer populations, but ask those same guys how many does they shoot and you will be shocked. Ask them to go one year without a deer as a solidarity gesture and most will say "screw that!". Not sure how things would work going that route.
Also, The GC is slowly changing their funding structure to eliminate the dependance on license sales to remain solvent. Soon they won't need us as we need them. They won't have to listen to us any longer either.
Also, The GC is slowly changing their funding structure to eliminate the dependance on license sales to remain solvent. Soon they won't need us as we need them. They won't have to listen to us any longer either.
12-06-2004, 03:46 PM
#5
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: Pa Hunters, Boycott doe tags in'05
Also, The GC is slowly changing their funding structure to eliminate the dependance on license sales to remain solvent. Soon they won't need us as we need them.
That simply is not true. The alternative funding is always earmarked for special stuies or projects . They will never get enough funding from outside sources to fund day to day operations.
The don't listen to us now ,so they can't listen any less in the future.
12-06-2004, 03:46 PM
#6
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 491
RE: Pa Hunters, Boycott doe tags in'05
Also, The GC is slowly changing their funding structure to eliminate the dependance on license sales to remain solvent. Soon they won't need us as we need them.
That simply is not true. The alternative funding is always earmarked for special stuies or projects . They will never get enough funding from outside sources to fund day to day operations.
The don't listen to us now ,so they can't listen any less in the future.
12-07-2004, 11:26 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
RE: Pa Hunters, Boycott doe tags in'05
It is really hard for me to believe that all the deer are gone in PA. Some people like to claim the same thing in NY. I bet the people that soot a couple deer or get a huge wallhanger aren't complaining. Just because some people don't get deer or don't see as many soesn't mean they aren't there.
