It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

I was one of the hunters who noticed a lack of deer this rifle season. However, I can't say it's because they are all dead. Between archery and bear season, we saw a ton of deer in our area. On the Saturday and Sunday nights of bear seaon, we saw 13 different bucks and 8 or 10 of them were legal - including four 9-pointers. On opening day I saw 2 small bucks and jumped a couple of does. I'm not sure what gives but the deer definitely changed their patterns and our ladder stands were in the old holt spots. The rut may have drawn a lot of bucks on to our property and they moved on when the resident does were bred. Somethings up but I can't say it's all Alt's fault. It may be in more heavily hunted areas, but where we are the hunting pressure just isn't there.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

yea, the hunters of pa that in the past killed 80% of all the bucks around for decades (thus preventing them from growing up to be wall hangers for wannabes), just suddenly in 2003 forgot how to hunt. 800,000 hunters just aren't looking in the right spot now.



Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

chickory,

A majority of the 1-1/2 year old bucks are being saved (something like 85% of the previous buck harvests were 1-1/2 years old). Now, guys are after 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 year old bucks which have been around the block and learned a few things from their first year.

Which is harder to kill, a 1-1/2 year old buck or a 3-1/2 year old buck?

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

i still think it has a lot to do with the full moon the deer are feeding at night this yr just sucks so far this yr hope with the winter coming into full affect that the nights will have more over cast and we need snow and better cold days

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, thats some classic internet voodoo. :D

A % of every harvest in pa for 100 year has been older deer. We see pictures of them everyday posted. Biggun shot down in Lancaster county this fall, he weren't too smart. He waddled out of a cornfield in front of a hunter who no problem splinking him. He-he-he you are grasping at straws when you claim that pa hunters just aren't smart enough to shoot deer after we did it for 100 years with zeal.

And by the way there are other states who practice AR and HR and they do not blame thier lowered harvests on bucks just getting smarter, they are smart enough to know they lowered as the herd got smaller (ie:Arkansas).

Talk about folkllore and hype..... people are now going to extraordinary measures these days to try and make excuses for less buck being taken. The moon, the stars, the wind, the bucks are now hiding.

How about the fact, that the Pa deer management plan is to reduce the herd a few % each year until it reaches a habitat friendly level and with less deer there will be less buck seen and harvested. And for your sake I will remind you that no one except you and one or two others has fogotten our harvest stats for the last few seasons.....

203,000 2001
165,000 2002
142,000 2003
13X,000 2004?

....and for the record the doe harvests have dropped accordingly also.

So you can spin some tale of aliens, moon beams, ESP for bucks, but the bottom line is that in the smaller herd there will be smaller harvests. It is no mystery.

Its called "the plan" ..... learn it, live it, looooove it.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

Thats right chickory and it is that simple. Kill more there has to be less.Kill more does, less does to have fawns.Kindergarden math.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

I realize that, in heavily hunted areas, deer numbers are way down. What I'm saying is that, even in areas where we were seeing lots of deer a week or two earlier, the deer just seemed to vanish. Private property as well as public. Something was a miss this year.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

My advice would be wait and see until next year to see whose point is the most valid. It may be a banner year next year for all we know. Right now all we are throwing out is theories on why the sightings and shootings have been low. It could have been just one of those off years. Does anyone know what the harvest numbers were from archery and early muzzy and 3 day early rifle season? Don't overlook this. There may have been a great amount of deer taken from the early seasons which in turn would lead to less deer sightings and shootings during the regular rifle season. I know for a fact that in our area there are still plenty of deer left, and I didn't get one this year.

I'm now looking forward and hoping that the fishing in Jersey will be good this year :D.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

Joe D. your idea of waiting a year and having a look around then is exactly what Alt has been telling us for HOW MANY years now????????? Well we've waited an given him his chance then looked around and don't like what we are seeing.
If you are fortunate to have hunting grounds in a WMU overpopulated then good for you. But don't be narrow minded and listen to all the ALTIES that post here.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

I'm not narrow minded by any stretch. Are you one of those guys that doesn't get a deer one year so you figure that the system must have something to do with it? Do you hunt often or was last Monday the first time in the woods this year? I have a friend that hunts strickly traditional bow and has had a shot at a deer at least once a week (that's right, no gun, just a stick with a string and he hunts public land that gets hit hard). I hunt in both 3b and 5c, both private and public and have had no problem seeing deer this year nor last. I don't think my area is managed any different than yours. The only thing that I do agree with is that there are too many doe tags sold.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

Chickory

Aliens and moon beams - that was classic.

You all must agree, the weather this buck season has been less than ideal. I didn't hear nearly as many people crying about a lack of deer in bow season, when the weather was right. Face it, high temps, rain, wind, etc. does not make for an ideal hunt. Nonetheless, I do think that certain areas are getting beat to death by the orange army, and the critter populations there are taking a hit.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

I thought it was rather nice. beautiful cold to mild on the opener, no wind.
Same thing just a little warmer the 2nd day
1st saturday cold, but nice again, just a mild breeze.

Those are your 3 biggest days and they were beautiful hunting weather.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

where I hunt the weather has been ideal. But I'm sure some want to try and blame lower harvests on the weather rather than face reality.

Last year it was snowy and windy the first day, and they said it caused a lower harvest. Now this year it was not windy and not snowy and people are saying that lowered the harvest.......???

Time to face reality guys...... it ain't the weather. It ain't moonbeams.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

All I know is I've spent a lot of time in the woods this year and walked a lot of miles. Here's what I have seen.

3 tails
1 up close

All FOUR were ALONE!!!!

Three years ago, I would be sitting in one spot all day and see a group of 9 deer with one shooter buck in the bunch. Ten minutes later, two deer run by, a 4-point and an 8-point. Thirty minutes later, 14 doe walk by. Do you see where I'm getting at here??? The herd is being EXTERMINATED!!!! Thanks Dr. Alt

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

hunted hard in 2 days i saw one doe alone. 2 bear. this was in sproul forest near kettle creek. last year was similar. in the past 10 seasons its only getting worse. im in my stand from sun up till sun down. new jersey statewide muzzleoader opens the same day so now i will do that instead. no problem seeing deer there!;)

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

What is the percentage of does taken each year? Cardeer, once again...I agree with you 100%. We are whacking a ton of does now, many of which are being bred by bucks, some of alpha bucks. The hunter then shoots that doe, thus eliminating the genes from that buck. It has happened all along, but I think its a more prevelent now.

Yes, I feel the buck harvest will continue to dwindle. The ones killed with be nicer racks, but there will be far fewer bucks taken. Fewer surviving does with yeild fewer new bucks into the herd the following year.

Simple math.

RE: It Ain't the Lack of Deer
 

Lets face it, we've been swindled. thanks dr alt [:@]