Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

I am in favor of antler restrictions in PA, let me say that first. I'm not a trophy hunter but I would like to see / harvest a good quality buck every so often. However, I tried to put myself in a stand and think back to how my last four year's bow kills transpired. All were average bucks for PA anywhere from 12 to 15 inch average basket rack 5 - 8 pts. That's all I see here in western PA for the most part and if I let too many bucks walk by me in bow season I'll end up sitting on a stump with a rife in my hand and that doesn't do it for me. There is just so much hunting pressure in most areas of this state you simply can't afford to be choosy. Just about every patch of woods is being pressured. But in thinking back, my last four years bucks I did not know on any of them for sure how many points the deer had until the blood trail ended. I saw it come in which happens quickly all so often, took a quick look at the rack saw that it was not a spike or a little fork horn and decided to take it if it was respectable. Even with a bow at less than 30 yards, in low light conditions, in the brush with limbs or the glare of sunlight it will be dang hard to be sure. Antlers can or cannot look like a lot of things in the brush, ecspecially just a couple inch points. I'd just like to throw the thought out there that when you put yourself in a tree stand and all of a sudden that buck shows up and it's now or never as it so often happens making sure there are 3 or 4 points on one side will be real tough. I know on several of the bucks I have taken if I had to tell you how many points it had on one side before I yanked the bow back they'd still be alive cause I couldn't of shot. It happens so fast sometimes even with a bow. I can't imagine how a rifle hunter would do it with a buck hauling the mail out across a mountain top. I will absolutely obey the law as a sportsman but I fear the possibility exists of my tag going unfilled. In PA you just can't be too picky and let too many walk, even with a bow, atleast in western PA.....but I guess the goal is to change that. Wouldn't putting down the rifles and picking up shotguns put some age on these bucks.....Just a thought

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Welcome aboard Natebook! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I think if we're patient just a year or two, you'll have no trouble counting points and bagging a better buck.

Edited by - btbowhunter on 03/05/2002 18:28:29

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Yes, we will have to adapt. Start wearing those binoculars today and picking up on things in a hurry. Take them to the 3-D shoots and try counting points before you shoot.

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Hey NateBook

What county are you from? I live in Indiana County. I have never had problems with seeing big bucks, I have problems with seeing small bucks haha. I think that it will be difficult for rifle hunters who see a buck running at two hundred yards, but that is a good thing. They won't be able to crack off a bunch of shots and that will make the woods alot safer. I personally don't have any problem with antler restrictions, but that is because I am blessed with hunting land that is full of BIG bucks. I do know one thing though, I have never really took the time to count ALL the points. This year I shot a buck with my bow, I thought that it was just a typical 8 point, it turned out to be a 12 point that would have been a 14 point if his main beam wasn't broken. I do see your point, alot of weekend hunters are going to have a pain getting a deer.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

O yeah, welcome to the board, it is a great place, and the people are VERY nice. Just jump right in, and soon enough you will be up to a non typical like me haha.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Like BTBowhunter said Just give it a year or two and you will have no problem. welcome to the board this is a great site.

brian

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

and not one comment about the shotguns instead of rifles, come one now?????? You guys can do better than that...

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

thanks for the welcome. So you know, I got on cause I can tell all you are as passionate as I am about the sport. I just like to look out for the common Joe. You know, the guy who has two kids and a wife, the guy who has to struggle to pay the bills. After all, the common Joe is the one who funds the vast majority of the hunting licenses every year... I was wondering so maybe someone has the info, how did this concept of growing more aged, bigger antlered deer get going anyhow in PA, is this what the average deer hunter in PA was asking for or if not how did this come about? Was this the result of polls sent out?

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

NateBook, I would say that this all came about when Dr. Gary Alt took a look at our deer herd. He saw that problems with the herd and the problems with how it was managed. He knew that it was a big hole that we were in and he had to be the one to attempt to dig us out. I think that his ideas were not liked by the sportsman at first, but now everyone is comming too. They are realizing the problems and they want them to be fixed. I would venture to say that about 65 percent of Pennsylvania hunters are for Alt. I am not sure on that, but that is just a guess I made from talking with other Pennsylvania residents/hunters.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

I agree. I just hope in a lot of ways we won't become similar to the midwestern states. I have hunted them and for instance, on my last Illinois trip I asked the landowner if a local neighbor living a half mile down the road could gain access to some of the local farms to hunt and his response was that it's near impossible. In other words, Illinois was a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to call it my home hunting state if I'm the common Joe. In PA I can still go down the road and get permission to hunt the area farms and I want to keep it that way, even more than I want to kill big bucks so I hope that is not the direction we are heading.Let's keep the business part of hunting out of PA for as long as we can

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

You should talk to a guy on here named Cardeer, he said the Exact same thing, exact. He is a great guy with lots of experience. I too really hope that business doesnt move in, it just causes trouble.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Welcome to the board,I could live with the shotguns

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Bigger racks are not the primary objective. They are a pleasant by product of a healthy herd that is in balance with the habitat and has a more natural buck/doe ratio. I'm kind of surprised that you havent had betterluck seeing good bucks now here in western Pa. What area do you hunt?

As for the midwest, Pa will never become quite like Illinois, Missouri or Iowa. There's just too many hunters here. I've hunted Pike County Ill for the last 5 years and have gotten to know quite a few folks out there. Yes, a lot of prime property is leased to hunters and outfitters but the &quot;average joe&quot; still have places to hunt according to the locals I've met.

Edited by - btbowhunter on 03/06/2002 06:01:50

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

mostly Butler County and in this area I don't know of a pach of woods not being hunted, even the posted stuff. And other people I know who hunt Lawrence and Mercer counties say the same thing. I even have a fexible work schedule and can hunt everyday of the season until my tags are filled and its extremely hard to see good bucks. As far as my experience with Illinois, that might not be true for the entire state, that was just what I was told. We hunted many different properties and were told that when we park our trucks along the road out there to back them in so the locals wouldn't see your out of state plate. Evidentely so much of the area around there had been leased up that people couldn't find a place to hunt anymore and tires were known to be slashed. I just thought that was quite a shame. The area also had a poaching problem, we were told that again the area neighbors were upset about losing a lot of their hunting land and were poaching deer. We got proof of that on a deer we killed which was full of shotgun beebies. It's quite a business out there.

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Hey NateBook

My family owns a cabin in Butler County. It is near Lake Arthur. The area around it looks like it would be good for deer hunting, we never hunt there, we just go up to the cabin to do some fishing at Lake Arthur. I have been walking around in the woods and seen a few nice bucks. The biggest one I ever saw up there was a 10 point that probablly would have been in the mid 130&quot; range. I have seen alot of nice 8 points though. I'll tell you one thing though, nothing can beat the muskie and bass fishing at Lake Arthur, and the best time is have up there is when I am fly fishing in the Little Grand Canyon. Have you ever been to a little animal Zoo out there. I can't remember the name of it, but I do remember that it had a bunch of nice sculptures of indians. They have bear, elk, deer, wolves, bobcats, and a bunch of exotic animals. There was a buck up there, it was only a four point, but it was HUGE for a four point. The body on it was TINY though.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Buck Magnet....now your in my neck of the woods....Lake Arthur is about 10 minutes from home. I take the highway past the lake everyday on my way home from work. It used to be Moraine State Park was actually no hunting but I'd say 10 or so years ago they opened the park up, the deer population got too high. I think initially it got hit real hard with hunters ecspecially during the rifle season and it still gets its share of pressure but I don't think it's too bad during bow season in some areas if you dont' mind a good walk in. One of the best farms I hunt is acutally not very far from the border of the park

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Well I guess I am gonna be the oddball. I am against the point restriction, because I do not hunt for the rack I hunt for the meat. I am as happy with the 4 point I shot last year as the 6 I shot the year before. I always get my doe tag if I manage not to see any bucks and that has happened more than once. As for shotguns I think that would be cool, cuz all the morons in the woods would have to think before they just started throwing bullets around.

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

NateBook, I have had our pontoon boat out under that bridge so many times. I caught a bunch of nice bass from under there. I got my biggest muskie at Lake Arthur, 44&quot;. It was a big one. I love that area up there, it is a beautiful place. Just think thoug, if the amount of hunters drops because of Alt's plans, it might clear up even more for you, plus the size of the deer will go up. Then you will have a GREAT spot to harvest a trophy buck.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

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Welcome everyone to the Natebook & Buck magnet local chatroom!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Daethorn,

Welcome to the forum. Just one question....why don't you harvest a doe for the meat first? It's really sad to think that taking a mature doe is somehow inferior to shooting an immature buck.

I agree on the shotgun issue, but there isn't a need for it in PA. With all the big woods and hills, there just isn't the types of hazards that mandatory shotgun-only seasons dictate.

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

This is just a thought, again as I said in my first posting I am in favor of doing something like putting antler restrictions out there to help these bucks age a bit and I understand that growing big bucks isn't the ultimate goal but...I can't help but think that if we did put down the rifles here in PA and used shotguns instead we could still reduce the doe herd and I'd think a lot more bucks would live an extra year or two and maybe you wouldn't have to put antler restriction on bucks in PA and the people who are against them could still kill a smaller buck if they want to. A lot more bucks would get some age with shotguns only. Something to think about anyhow.....

&quot;A man's gotta believe in something, I believe I'll go bowhuntin'&quot;

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

NateBook

It sounds like it is a good idea, but there are alot of things that people could do that would make it bad. First off, you might have hunters out there with shotguns shooting at deer like the shoot at rabbits. This would cause more deer to be injured than what already is happening. Second, there are so many differing terrains in Pennsylvania, that shotguns might cause more injuries. There are areas that are thick, there are areas that are open, there are waving hills, and then there are areas that are flat. Some hunters will take shots that could end up injuring other hunters, BUT, on the other hand, a slug has a smaller trajectory than a rifle, and some stray shots might fall short of injuring people. Third, it will probablly not be accepted by rifle hunters. Too many rifle hunters have too much money into a deer rifle. They aren't going to like having to buy a new shotgun with a rifled barrel and all the other accesories. They won't like having their 1,200 dollar rifle sitting in the corner collecting dust. Plus, I believe that slugs are very expensive. Rifle hunters wouldn't like having to pay more for slugs than they did for their rifle shells. Just a couple of my thoughts. This has brought up a new topic in my mind, I am gonna post it now.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

I just keep throwing the whole shotgun thing out there cause I can't believe that our large population of rifle hunters aren't going nuts threatening a revolution over this antler restriction idea. Here is my thinking...I'd have to guess that the average hunter in this state is a rifle hunter who probably hunts the first day, second day and the two Saturdays and maybe an occasional evening after work. That's about all the time he has. He is very lucky to see one flash of antler in a year and killing a buck of any size is a great year. Just about every buck he does kill is running full tilt across a mountain top or down a hollow, he's lucky to have enough time to see antlers and shoot. If now he has to only shoot a deer with four points on a side the odds of him killing a buck are slim to none. Even let's say in a couple of years we start seeing some larger racked bucks it is still very very unlikely that with a buck running full tilt a rifle hunter has the time to put the deer in his scope, be sure of the points and then shoot it. It's just not going to happen very often. I'd have to believe a lot of rifle hunters will go many years sometimes without killing a buck. And I can't think the average rifle hunter is really too concerned with quality deer management and killing bigger bucks, he's happy killing any buck. So, if I'm a rifle hunter right now and I know that one of PAs goals is to get some age on our bucks in general I'm thinking there are two realistic ways of doing this, antler restrictions or shotguns only and I'd be willing to buy a shotgun if I didn't have one and still be able kill any buck I see rather than use a rifle and only kill a buck with four points on it. that's just how I'd be thinking

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

The woods will be safer if....

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Just about every buck he does kill is running full tilt across a mountain top or down a hollow, he's lucky to have enough time to see antlers and shoot. If now he has to only shoot a deer with four points on a side the odds of him killing a buck are slim to none. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

....i DON'T THINK SO.

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Hey, about the safety of the woods...I'm not debating that, I have seen some hunters do some crazy things and safety is not their top priority. I'm just saying how it is during gun season.

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Unfortunately, that is the way the rifle season is.

But it doesn't have to be. Shotguns can limit that, AR's will make people take the time to look.

The best part of these AR's is the hunt. People will be out there hunting again. Instead of setting up shoulder to shoulder getting ready for war. The folks that want a deer bad enough will find one. The others....well, they'll have to learn to HUNT!

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

It is truly unfortunate how some people don't follow what they preach. Alot of hunters talk about how safety is always first, then you go hunting in Pa on the first day and realize that safety is the LAST thing on everyone's minds. Just think about where the bullets from the guy sittin on a hill cracking off shots at spike running 300 yards away from are landing? It could be in a parked car, in someone's yard, in someones house..... The woods are too unsafe when the orange army sets out. A million hunters, with an average of 5 shells in each weapon. Hmm, thats 5 million bullets waiting to fly at the first sight of a deer.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

Natebook,
What other hunting forums have you participated in?
Your name isn't familiar but I can't help but think we've talked before?

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This is the only one I am a member of. It's enought to keep me occuiped. What do you recognize, the name?

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

This is the only one I am a member of. It's enought to keep me occuiped. What do you recognize, the name?

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Nope, just one of those feelings of Deja vu.
My mistake <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Antler Resctrictions in PA
 

no mistake, what was the topic, I probably have an opinion??