livbucks

Have we harvested more AL under AR? .......YES
Has the BB kill declined as a percentage of the AL kill?...... YES
Are we doing the impossible...YES, (according to you)
Is it impossible? ..................NO, (according to me, and the facts)
Anything that can be done once can be improved on in the future.
We are just starting out and the FACTS prove that we can do it.

CONCLUSION
SO, YOU ARE WRONG AND THE FACTS PROVE YOU ARE WRONG!

deaddeer

I never said it was impossible to reduce the percentage of BB in the anterless harvest. What I said was that saving BB only delays the inevitable decline in the buck harvest by one year , because it accelerates the rate at which we harvest adult doe ,which decreases breeding rates and recruitment so fewer BB will be born.

In 2003 we reduced the BB harvest by 9K and increased the adult doe harvest by 22.4 K ,which will result in a decrease in 39K fewer fawns and 19.5K fewer BB. So the long term effect of saving 9 K BB in 2003 was 19.5 K fewer BB in 2004 . therefore, there is no way that saving BB will keep up with the accerlate decline in BB production caused by shooting more adukt doe.

chickory

Nobody says it better than deaddeer.

You can spin your wheels trying to make more out of our deer plan than is there...

You can fret over BB.

But in the end, less deer = less deer. It always the herd reduction part that get 'ya!

BTBowhunter

Yep, you're right! John Kerry comes close, but he's an amatuer at distorting the facts compared to ol DD!

deaddeer

Since you have a computer, you probably have a calculator lying around somewhere. So, why don't you calculate the number of additional 1.5 buck that will created by saving BB versus the number of BB that will be lost due to harvesting additional doe and prove that I am wrong.

Obviously ,you don't have the ability to do it or your you would have done it already and made me look foolish. Instead you make silly ,unsupported claims which make you look foolish. Keep it up.

BTBowhunter

Duh!

Everyone here has agreed with the statement .... less deer= less deer. Of course more adult does killed means less BB's the next year. Thats not all you tried to say though. You tried to say that passing BB's would not have an effect. As a matter of fact, with more does being killed, it is even more important that we do our best as hunters to bring as many folks as possible on board to the idea of letting BB's walk. This is one that cant be effectively or realistically legislated. A culture change from within our ranks is the only way it could happen. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to possibly understand the concept of self sacrifice to make our deer herd better for all of us. So go ahead, continue to KERRYcterize the facts to your own end. I dont have to point it out. It's as plain as day and most here see it.

deaddeer

I never said or implied passing on BB would have no effect. What I said was it would only delay the decrease in the buck harvest for one year and that in the long term it would accelerate the decline due to harvesting more adult doe. But, apparently that is to complicated for you to understand ,but it is stilll true.

According to you, by harvesting BB ,to reduce the herd, I am reducing my chances to harvest a mature buck and then you turn around and accuse me of being selfish. Maybe you should look in the mirror if you want to see someone who is selfish and places more importance of producing more buck than on herd reduction,even though you give herd reduction plenty of lip service.

You say you don't have to point out my mistakes and the reason is you can't. There are lots of folks that would love to prove me wong ,but they can't because I use PGC stats, not personal opinions as you do.

Gar-Shooter

Getting back to the original question.

I do not think people should shoot button bucks if they can help it. That is the stance of the PGC. The only button buck I ever shot had its leg blown off and ran and stood in front of me bleeding profusely. I put a bullet through his lungs. Some guy was tracking his blood trail and I yelled to him. Once he found out it was a BB he told me it was my deer.

If it would have been a big 10pt I am sure he would have had a different opinion. That was the last day I have ever rifle hunted. I have been bowhunting ever since.

I have passed up lots of shots at BB during archery season because they are pretty stupid. I have gone without filling my antlerless tag because of this and am happy for it.

Gar-Shooter

JerseyJim

I'm in Jersey and do my best not to shoot BB's. I shot 1 BB about 5 years ago but it was a rainy,foggy day and I thought he was a doe. The only way I would shoot a BB on purpose is if it were the last day of the season and my freezer was still empty. If the choice is between shooting a BB and having no venison until next year....sorry Mr. Button Buck but your time is up. For the most part I would pass on a BB to let him grow.

AJ52

My .02,
Effective last week going back 7 years(private farm), I've taken 3 BB out of 23 deer total. Never intentional,have passed on many BB's and spikes. I've learned to pay much more attention to head,body and how a deer arrives on the scene. All are key signs of BB even if you can't see Buttons. I've passed on 2 BB's this year and a 3 pnt. If hunters on our farm, and I know farm next door practices such management it's a win win situation for all hunters.

Dispersal rate is directly related to buck/doe ratio. The more skewed the ratio, better chance BB will disperse(kicked out of herd). Fact is - passing on BB's and Spikes - and taking out more does increases your chances of taking a nice 6-8-10 pnt in next 2-3 years. Some as we know always slip thru the crack. This is what biologists/game managers are trying to pound into deer hunters heads.

Having said all that - look at South Texas. They have been practicing Qaulity Deer Management for years. Some of the nicest animals in country are takin off huge open ranches down there.