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-   -   What group of hunters would you fall under? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/northeast/5623-what-group-hunters-would-you-fall-under.html)

mhogan 02-14-2002 08:08 PM

What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I think this description of hunters is right in the money. This was written by Stephen Trupe. He is a wildlife biologist, hunter and past president and director of the Pa. Deer Association.


"For the purpose of this discussion I’m going to identify 4 very broad factions of sportsmen based on their opinions on how our deer should be managed. Based upon my experience, I believe that the deer hunters in PA are roughly equally divided among these factions.

A DEER BEHIND EVERY TREE. These are mostly older hunters who experienced the strong revival of our deer herd through the 1940’s and ‘50’s; the overpopulation of the 60’s and ‘70’s and the "decline" of the last 2 decades. They want deer herds back to the levels of the forested regions in the late 1960’s with little regard for forest regeneration, crop damage, affect on non-game species, or the health of the deer herd itself. Of course, any predator that competes with them for the deer resource should be eliminated. They pay the bills (through hunting licenses) and they want to see lot’s of deer. This group is very steadfast in their opinions, won’t listen to facts or reason and will be nearly impossible to sway. It is also probably the most vocal faction.

SCIENTIFIC MANAGEMENT IS OK, BUT NOT WHERE I HUNT OR LIVE. Many of these hunters have strong economic or emotional ties to the Big Woods areas of the state. They own recreational property or their livelihood depends upon hunters and eco-tourists. They’ve experienced the deer herd fluctuations of the past four decades. Deep down inside, they may know that Scientific, habitat based deer management is right, but they don’t want to believe it, or allow it to affect them. This group may support protection of biodiversity in certain special areas, but it will take a strong "show and tell" effort to sway them to accept it where they live and /or play.

SCIENTIFIC MANAGEMENT AND PROTECTION OF BIODIVERSITY ARE THE RIGHT THING TO DO (AS LONG AS THEY DON’T AFFECT MY HUNTING). These are our present generation of hunters, those who did not experience deer hunting in big woods in the 1960’s or ‘70’s. They began hunting after the Game Commission began to get better control of the deer herd. They are a bit more environmentally aware and educated. They don’t expect to see 50 or more deer every time they go out, but still want to know that there are plenty around. Overall, they believe in the Game Commission’s deer management plan but get skeptical if they don’t see as many deer as they think they should -or would like to see. One of their biggest concerns is that under the current "County management unit plan" there is an over harvest of deer on public land and an under harvest on private land, and the problem gets compounded annually when more antlerless licenses are issued to address the overpopulation on private land, and end up being used on public land. This group knows that Scientific, habitat-based deer management and protection of Biodiversity are the right things to do, but they are not quite ready to jump in, in full support of it. They may be skeptical of the deer management goal numbers, or of some aspect of the overall management plan. This is the least vocal of all the factions. Publicly, they tend to accept things as they are; they don’t complain much, nor do they come out in numbers to support their stand. A good educational and PR effort could turn many of these hunters into strong supporters and members of the fourth group....

THE ENLIGHTENED DEER HUNTER. These folks have experienced and hunted well managed deer herds, possibly in other States or on intensely managed private land here in PA. They are very knowledgeable about deer, their biology and habits. They know that a healthy deer herd, in a healthy habitat is the best possible scenario for all concerned - hunters, non-hunters and environmentalists. Many support Quality Deer Management and more are joining that movement as they learn about it. They will support the protection of Biodiversity. They are quite vocal, but unfortunately, probably less numerous than the other factions."

pabuckhunter 02-14-2002 08:22 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I would say I fall into last group

Corvid Killer 02-14-2002 11:06 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Im definitely in the Scientific one. Would like to be the last one, but havent had the opportunity to hunt well managed deer herds.

Rob

Buck Magnet 02-14-2002 11:56 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I would say that I don't fit into any group. I hunt for meat, but I think big antlers are an added bonus so I will try to pass up little bucks until I can't wait any longer, then I will take any deer that is legal and walks by, I really love the meat. I do hunt on private land that is pretty much hunted only by my best friend and I. We both practice this principal. He passed up a no wind, standing still, 10 yard, broadside shot on a 7 point, with a 15-16 inch spread, and probablly 3 1/2 inch of mass all the way around. The deer was only 1 1/2 years old, so he knew that it would be a nice buck next year.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

BTBowhunter 02-15-2002 04:34 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
definitely the last group <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

mhogan 02-15-2002 07:01 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I still post, but have cut back on arguing with the first group(Behind every tree)so much. I have a close friend that is in that first group and I have showned him why he can't have 60 deer per square mile, and he doesn't care. He pays the PGC's way and that's what he wants no matter what damage is done or of if the deer starve to death once in a while.

It has to do with the Serenity Prayer.

Edited by - mhogan on 02/15/2002 08:02:28

Edited by - mhogan on 02/15/2002 08:03:06

6ptsika 02-15-2002 07:58 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I guess the last group. I would imagine the first group is a dying breed. The second and third wwill always be here, to some extent.

buckhunter3 02-15-2002 08:00 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I think BM said it for me I am a meat hunter who will hold out as long as I can and then decide what I want to harvest.I passed up a 4 and 6pt. during archery season because I saw a bigger buck.I ended up shooting a big doe in gun season and my son shot a big 8pt. and a doe, so we have plenty of meat in the freezer.
I think too many people are trying to put everyone in one group or another as stated here.I go out with some of my family,(Drive) deer for others and we are pretty successful at it.We obey the laws,respect the land and land owners and, have a good time doing it.If that is also called a group then I guess I am guilty and a part of that group.

445 supermag 02-15-2002 08:07 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Last group for me too.

brian

Rob/PA Bowyer 02-15-2002 08:13 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Last group here too.

Mhogan, I know what you mean....arrg.

PABowhntr 02-15-2002 09:41 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I would like to think that I fall into the last group as well, except for one statement that was part of the third group....

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> They may be skeptical of the deer management goal numbers, or of some aspect of the overall management plan.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

....with special emphasis on the second part of that statement.....

wimp 02-15-2002 11:33 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I think I'm a group 3 and 4 split.

mysticguido 02-15-2002 01:09 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Well I hunt for 2 reasons....

1) To help keep a healthy heard ...
2) to put food on my Table...

I just found out this past Dec I have a Heart problem and next Month I go in for Surgery... and Venison is the best meat to have... and plus it's way better then any other kinda RED MEAT....

I love Deer, well hell all wildlife. so I would say I'm a Hunt that helps out all wildlife...

Live to Hunt.....Hunt to Live
NAHC & BuckMaster Member

BTBowhunter 02-15-2002 01:17 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Wimp and Frank

I think a lot of us who lean toward the last group still have some skepticism. Given the PGC's pre-Alt history, that just means we've been paying attention over the last decade or so! A little skepticism is just plain healthy as we enter waters that are uncharted in some areas. I think &quot;cautiously optimistic&quot; is a good way to describe how many hunters presently feel.

bow27 02-15-2002 07:04 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I would say group 4 but where I hunt in NY there is not enough deer to start shooting does.
&quot;the overpopulation of the 60’s and ‘70’s and the &quot;decline&quot; of the last 2 decades. They want deer herds back to the levels of the forested regions in the late 1960’s&quot;. And all this time the states are telling us that there more deer than ever.

Big Country 02-15-2002 07:24 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Group # 4 for me! I notice someone did`nt pick a group, just an insult?<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

mhogan 02-15-2002 09:37 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Bow27, when they say that, they are referring to the statewide population. The big woods, mature forest's populations are down in Pa. It can't support the large herds of the past and we have hunted them down as a result. The growth has been near the large human population centers and other traditional non-deer areas.

rem700man 02-16-2002 02:40 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
id say that i fall into both groups 3 & 4 wish i could say 4 all the way, but i feel i still have alot to learn about managing a deer herd, & Mysticguido i hope everything turns out good for you with yer upcoming surgery

BBHPete 02-16-2002 07:14 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I've been in the last catagory for the last 9 years.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

God Bless & Good Hunting
LM/NAHC
Member NRA
Member P&Y CLUB
Member Ducks Unlimited

sshunter 02-16-2002 07:28 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Group 4

huntal 02-16-2002 09:03 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
group 3. bow27 what part of the state do you hunt, down in the southerntier there are alot of deer. i see alot of bucks duriing bow and alot of does during shotgun.

good hunting

beachhunter 02-21-2002 03:38 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I fall into group 1 and am proud of it. I wasn't around in the 40's or the 50's or the 60's or the 70's or the 80's or the 90's. I pay $101 a year for 1 buck tag. I want a deer. I really wouldn't care if it was a buck or a doe just a deer. I hunt the big woods and unfortunately the drop in deer numbers had coresponded with a huge decline in hunters. Maybe if there were more deer we'd have more hunters. Just a thought.

mhogan 02-21-2002 07:28 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
It's true, but do you manage the herd for hunter satisfaction or deer health? That is what they refer to a resource first philosophy.

Mainehunter 02-22-2002 06:06 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
To place yourself in one of the described groups would also be agreeing with the author's point of view that all other than the last are ignorant or misguided. Out of spite I will say none of the above.

mhogan 02-22-2002 08:02 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
If it walks like a duck..... :)

PABuck_HNTR 02-24-2002 04:52 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Last group

davidmil 02-26-2002 07:04 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Maine: that was exactly my first thoughts. The article/discriptions of each group are definitely slanted to make you appear to be a lesser man if you disagree. I would include myself in group 4 if I didn't have to attack the other groups in doing so. And why do I &quot;have to have hunted well managed herds in other states.....&quot; etc to fall into this group. Yup it's a self serving classification that was designed to belittle everyone who didn't jump on the band wagon whole heartedly. You can belong to group 4 and think like group 1. How anyone can state that group 2 or 3 is totally wrong is beyond me. At least from my point of view. This article was written by a State Biologist..... yet they AREN'T doing what's best for the herds in their approach. If they wanted to really practice QDM they would do it, and not worry about how much money can we make from extra tags. They're being a bit two faced and now this guy says if you don't think like me you're stupid and unenlightened and a lesser person. Bullhockey... we disagree is all. Somewhere in the middle is a good place. What the heck is wrong with group 3 that he feels they aren't performing? I guess we're not vocal enough there. In short we can disagree and still both have valid points. That doesn't mean he's right and I'm wrong. He isn't practicing or proposing TRUE QDM to begin with so why is his group necessarily the ONLY group. He's be exclusionary in his classification. He's fostering disention and a fight. Make one group with different ideas. When you start your persuasive arguement with &quot;You're a F---ing dummy&quot; I tune you out.

Edited by - davidmil on 02/26/2002 08:09:14

Mainehunter 02-26-2002 06:47 PM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
davidmil-Thanks. I was starting to think I was the only observant &quot;duck&quot; in this flock of birds.

DaveH 02-27-2002 09:47 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
I would defintely fall into group #4. I always strive to shoot only mature deer and small or immature deer get a free pass by me.

I also noticed the claim by the author that the deer population has been declining the past 2 decades. Funny how the estimates each year show there to be more deer than ever!

NorthJeff 02-27-2002 10:35 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
Group 4, no question.


mhogan 02-27-2002 10:40 AM

RE: What group of hunters would you fall under?
 
DaveH, the population density has shifted during that time. The traditional big woods areas have unquestionally seen decreases in densities and the overall increases have been due to herd growth that has occurred mostly in southern Pa. where few deer use to live. We do not go to camp anymore for the better hunting. That is now found in the southern counties that are not forested.


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