crossbows
 

after reading past posts about crossbows,i had to start using a crossbow 2 years ago because of back,shoulder&elbow problems.in those 2years i have harvested 3deer,i hunt from sept till the e nd of the seasons in two states.the crossbow is not the effient hunting tool that the archery group think they are.i would rather be using my compound that i have hunted with and harvested alot more deer in two years than i did with the so called non-archery tool(crossbow) yes you don,t have to pull the string back but you still have to be within your effective range and they don't shoot like guns, in fact with the new bows on the market they are more effiencient then a crossbow is. so to end this before i have every archer mad we still are all archery hunters and we will not impact the archery season as some may think

RE: crossbows
 

I think of it this way. You are doing with you love to do, That is HUNTING. Be it a hand gun, rifle, compound, recurve, shotgun, long bow, or even a crossbow. It is still hunting, our god giving right and a very worthy sport. Sorry to hear about your problems from keeping you from you compound, but more power to you Macbe.

RE: crossbows
 

My concern is that the one day wonders will view it as an easy way to get an early deer. Any undedicated, unskilled buffoon can get reasonably good with a crossgun in 5 minutes. No problem with that fact by itself, but when it gets lumped into the same season with a weapon that takes a LOT of dedication and practice to hunt with I now have a real problem with it. I support the disabled using them. They have enough other challenges, but the crossbow doesnt belong in the same season with hand held/drawn bows for the able bodied.

I am not opposed to it getting its' own season, at least until the impact has been assessed.

RE: crossbows
 

macbe,

I love hunting and just being in the woods and if you are similar to me in that manner, than what you use to hunt deer should not matter, as long as it conforms with the laws of the land. Now I too have a compound bow and know that using my bow takes lots of practice to tune it and get it working just so. Compounds and crossbows have been in existance for many years, and they both have their pluses and minuses. I don't think you will ever change the opinions of traiditional compond bow hunters that crossbows have a place in bow hunting when they hunt, but know this, I applaud you for continuing with your love of this sport. My neighbor was hit by a truck a few years back and can not bring his arm all the way up to support a bow and he is looking towards purchasing a crossbow. He misses going hunting with the bow.

I wish you many years of successful hunting with your crossbow.

T

RE: crossbows
 

Hey just being out there is what matters. To each their own. Some people can choose their weapons some are less fortunate and cannot. I learned on a long bow, then the recurve, now a compound. I would like to shoot a cross bow just for the experiance, and to say I did. But til that time, if ever and health prevails I'm just glad to be out there.:)

RE: crossbows
 

btbowhunter,i just don't understand your logic. do you think a hunter using a crossbow is going to kill more deer than a person using a bow.i personaly killed three buck with a compound bow @ 40yds.i could put arrows into a target the size of soup [email protected] that is water over the bridge,now comes the crossbow,it is heavy,awkward to hold,you have to make sure there is not a tree in front of the limbs or anything else it may come in contact of.they are noisy,theyjump when they go off.i practice with this as much as i did with the compound and you cannot plug arrow after arrow at the accuracy of the compound,and as far as shooting at long distance as some think it don,t happen.you are shooting a bolt much shooter than a compound,it drops alot faster than the compound.so as far as not including this into the regular season is bullcrap.they have done studies in other states on the impact and it didn't effect there season. if they did set aside a special season where do you think it would come from.

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RE: crossbows
 

Whatever anyone may think, the woods and deer do not belong solely to bow hunters or any group of hunters (haven't you ever heard the gun hunters say that the bow hunters ruin "their" season, by spookin the deer??) If you haven't noticed, there are plenty for everyone. I am a bowhunter and in all honesty wouldn't jump for joy if they were legalized for the general public, but at the same time i wouldn't be whining about it either . However, I think if they were to legalize them in NY they should designate a special season (say 1 or 2 weeks in the archery season and/or at the end of the season sometime and charge a separate fee like every other implement - generate some more funds .

PS - they should also increase the regular archery season (which may likely happen this year)

RE: crossbows
 

http://hunting.about.com/library/weekly/aa020716a.htm

here some reading for the non-crossbow supporters

RE: crossbows
 

Macbe, I agree with you that the crossbow is noisy, clumsy, and not necessarily better at longer ranges than a compound I'll say again that I have no problem with the legitimately disabled using them in the regular bow season.

Alloutdoors has done a good job of expressing the concerns of a lot of bowhunters including myself. Currently bowhunting= commitment. That commitmentis rewarded by a long season and opportunities to hunt in a relaxed low pressure atmosphere. The reason I dont want em in archery is the same reason the crossbow manufacturers are pushing so hard. THE CROSSBOW IS ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT TO COMMIT TO THE WORK THAT TRUE BOWHUNTING REQUIRES. The sheer numbers of added hunters in the woods at that time will have to have an effect on hunting pressure and the risk is that our season will get shortened up.

I dont mind the idea of expanding opportunities for all hunters. I just mind when a manufacturers lobby and a few legislators try to force something on us that the majority doesn't want and runs the risk of hurting our sport.

We have 2 weeks between archery and rifle season, try a crossgun season in there before you mess with someone elses sport.

Again, I have NO problem with the TRULY disabled using em in archery season. But we all know there are already way too many guys out there that could shoot a compound or traditional bow that have scammed a crossgun permit. That needs to stop as well.

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RE: crossbows
 

To bad cardeer doesn't post here anymore.. From what I remember he has alot of exprriance with crossbows. Maybe do a search and pull up some of his threads.

RE: crossbows
 

My worry truly isnt that it's too efficient, but that it will attract exactly the wrong kind of hunter. We have too many of that type in the gun season. we sure don't want em out there wounding deer and generally making hunters look bad in the bow season.

The fact that the manufacturers research show that if legalized many will buy them reinforces my point. To those archers who tend to say "what can it hurt?" ask yourself why those that would hunt with a crossbow don't just buy a traditional bow and hunt with it?

RE: crossbows
 

To those archers who tend to say "what can it hurt?" ask yourself why those that would hunt with a crossbow don't just buy a traditional bow and hunt with it? BECAUSE THEY ARE TO LAZY!!! IT'S ALL ABOUT WANNABE'S LOOKING FOR A SHORT-CUT(aside from the handicapped, of course). Real archers are dedicated to their sport. It makes a big difference! How many successful archers are there out there who are begging to use a crossbow? OK- -NOW ENTER ALL THE LIARS!!!
I say keep 'em out of the woods![:'(]

J-BOW

RE: crossbows
 

No we aren't. Crossbows are not "archery" equipment. Yes they are almost as old, and have a storied history. Yes they are not the deadly accurate killing machines some people envision. But you are definitely NOT an "Archer" when shooting crossbow bolts at deer.

For the disabled and for the weak who can get medical permission slips, they are a viable alternative for people who do not possess the physical abilities to take advantage of the longer archery seasons. But trying to argue that crossbows are the same as archery equipment just can't fly. They are different .. completely different. If a hunter wants to take advantage of the longer archery seasons .. they should buy a bow and practice like the rest of us, not try and negotiate a work around. Again, disabled is different.

It would be the same as arguing for muzzleloader season to include rifles, what's the difference now with the advancements in ML's???? Or in-lines during Flintlock season???

If crossbows are included in archery season, or have their own season .. I can live with it .. but please don't think for a second you are an "Archer" when shooting a crossbow. Come up with another name .. Crossbowman ... Boltslinger... Bangsticker .. but Archer is taken.

Regardless of what argument you make .. I can pick up a crossbow, set the scope or sights for 20 yard's then hand that same crossbow, shooting the same bolts to any random person with some shooting ability and they will be dead on. I've seen it done dozens of times. On the other hand, there isn't a person alive who can pick up my bow, click on a release or use fingers and using my sights and peep .. and be dead on. WAY to many variables involved.

RE: crossbows
 

MA Jay-
I AGREE 100%

J-BOW

RE: crossbows
 

Personally, I have no problem with crossbows being allowed during the archery season. If it makes you a more accurate hunter what's not to like? I hunt Massachusetts, I not only bow hunt, I shotgun hunt, and muzzleload. I have a lilfelong friend who owns a very popular archery shop in my hometown. All I know is when I go up there and look at the money people have in their compound bows, I really can't believe it. Sure you may be able to sight in a crossbow with a scope and hand it to a friend and have him put it in the ten ring with every shot (which makes for a cleaner kill in my mind) but, you can also go to the counter and have a bow set up for you in about a half hour and have yourself shooting very accurately same night. I've seen it many times, people come into the shop, having never shot a bow and leave hitting the bull consistantly at 20yards by the end of the night. I'm not saying they are ready to hunt, but in most of their minds they are. If someone wants to argue advancements in bow hunting, (not that a crossbow in my mind is an advancement), what about all the technology there is in compounds?!! It's crazy. The way I read this thread, before you know it we'll have a season for longbows, recurve's, compounds, and crossbows. IT SHOOTS ARROWS! IT'S NOT A 300 WIN MAG. YES IT REQUIRES LESS TIME TO GET ON THE PAPER AND BE ACCURATE, BUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? I hunt a lot, a real lot and I what bothers me more about hunting than anything is the amount of dead deer I find each year with arrows in them. Alot of people don't take the time to practice, or have the time to practice. If it's easier to shoot a crossbow, and it makes you a more accurate shooter, whats wrong with that? It's all about clean kills and less wounds. I don't think the crossbow is the save all to wounded deer by any means, it's still shot placement. Pick a spot. Myself, I call people who shoot longbows and recurves archer's not the high tech bows of today. I know I can outshoot a crossbow with my compound, hands down because I practice. But, a lot of people don't have time to practice and if the crossbow will enable them to make a cleaner kill, all the power to them. I'd be a liar if I said I never wounded a deer with a bow, I have a few times, I know how it can be. I archery hunt because the season is during the best time of the year, it's not my favorite method of hunting by no means. I like to reach out and touch deer on occassion. I don't know what kind of fantasy world a lot of the bow hunters in this forum live in but I live in a heavily bow hunted part of Massachusetts and believe me, there aren't a whole lot of great shooters out there. To think that the crossbow idea would attract the "wrong kind of hunters" might be the pot calling the kettle black, a lot of the "wrong kind of hunters" are already out there. As stated before, I spend a lot of time up the archery shop and I can't tell you how many times in the course of the season I hear, "I hit one, but I couldn't find it". I say the more people attracted to sport, the better we are, because we are a dying breed, like it or not.

RE: crossbows
 

Pace Maker-

I respect your opinion as a fellow hunter and Massachusetts resident, but I disagree. The same reasons you give in defense of allowing crossbows during archery season are exactly WHY I would like to see them NOT allowed.

You make a great point here, but if some "Archer's" are not taking the time to practice enough to become 100% proficient, how can we expect that "new" crossbow hunters will practice enough with their weapons to make themselves proficient??? The main reason many rifle/muzzleloader/shotgun hunters do not ALSO hunt during archery season is they don't care to invest the time and effort to become proficient with a bow. The reason for the longer archery season is not to monopolize the woods for archers (I also hunt with rifles/ml's/shotguns) but it is due to the inherent limiting factors in archery, it takes more invested time and effort to score with a bow than any other weapon.
I agree, the advancements in archery equipment are staggering and the cost of some of the equipment is insane .. but you have to be honest here.. all that money and technical development has stretched the effective range of a bow for the average shooter from about 20 yards to about 30 yards. For that same "average" shooter there needs to be a VERY significant time investment with that same bow to be truly effective even at 30 yards. I guess my point here is that, regardless if you shoot a long bow, recurve, single or cam and 1/2 bow .. if you are a "true" archer and practice with your bow to become 100% proficient .. the most technology can buy you is about 15 extra yards in a hunting situation. That 15 yards I don't think warrants splitting the seasons. Now you are talking about bringing a totally different weapon into the woods during archery season. A crossbow is as different from a bow as an inline muzzleloader is from a rifle or slug gun. The truth is a ML now is equivalent or better than a shotgun, and equal to many rifles in performance ... but since it is a different weapon, with it's own following .. it has it's own season. That's ultimately at the heart of my argument .. a crossbow is not archery equipment. I'll use Pennsylvania as an example of a state the recognizes a "Primitive Weapon" season .. aka. the Flintlock season. Now if your state is "over run" with deer and you need to recruit more hunters to kill them .. go ahead and allow your crossbows. Still doesn't make it equivalent of archery equipment. Also, last time I checked .. here in Mass, we've got deer but we are definitely NOT over run!

Sadly, that is a fact. For the animals sake I wish that was the case with only archer's, but it isn't. There aren't a lot of "great" shooters in general. The lack of land and opportunity to practice and the shifting away from shooting in general has hurt this generation of "shooter" in my opinion. I personally think it is naive to think that introducing weapons which are....

... will result in cleaner kills. If the allure of crossbows is they are easier to shoot and require less dedication to become proficient .. then I have to believe the results will be exactly the same as ALL other hunting seasons with every weapon. Some ethical and dedicated hunters will use them the way they were intended and have the self discipline to use them well, some "slobs" will use them as the silent poaching tool they have dreamed of and as an excuse to not practice at all, and then some guys will pick them up and with a minimum of effort and practice stretch the weapons capabilities to their absolute maximum. Either way .. you are still going to find those dead, poorly hit deer .. just a lot more of them because you will be putting a finesse weapon that requires practice and self discipline to master into the hands of people who have avoided archery hunting for those exact 2 reasons.

RE: crossbows
 

I archery hunt because the season is during the best time of the year, it's not my favorite method of hunting by no means. PLEASE....NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE, BUT THAT SAYS IT ALL TO ME RIGHT THERE!!! I LIVE TO BOWHUNT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I AM 100% DEDICATED TO THE SPORT. I WOULD JUST AS SOON SEE GUN HUNTING GO AWAY, ALTHOUGH I KNOW IT CAN'T OR WON'T!
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN...... IT'S ALL ABOUT WANNABE'S LOOKING FOR A SHORT-CUT(aside from the handicapped, of course). Real archers are dedicated to their sport. It makes a big difference!

J-BOW

RE: crossbows
 

Honestly, I think you are the first person I've ever encountered that has bowhunted and yet it isn't his favorite method of hunting whitetails. I assume you don't have great success....or much success at all?

Regardless, hunting isn't about how easy it is or how little commitment you have. Hunting is about winning a battle with your most respected quarry. I don't kill deer for the fun of it, I kill deer because I'm asked to, because it's a challenge, because I feel more at peace with myself, etc. Making it easy does nothing but detract from that!

RE: crossbows
 

I figured I could get a few replies writing what I did.
I'm with you J-bow on your 100% dedication to the archery sport. That's great and I wish everyone that bowhunted or hunted in general was that dedicated.That's a great statement MA Jay. It's the same in all seasons no question about it. But, I'm not sure putting a separate crossbow season in would be the answer to any of this. Would any one like to give up 2 weeks in peak-rut for a crossbow season? I know I wouldn't. All I'm saying is, if it came down to it, whether or not to legalize crossbows, I'd vote to do it. If for nothing else, to draw more people into the sport. We live in Massachusetts, I feel the more people we can attract to the sport, the longer we'll be able to enjoy it. Massachusetts is certainly not a "hunter friendly" state. That's a statement I wish I never read. We have a hard enough time keeping our gun rights now, with all the anti-gun activists, never mind a fellow hunter writing something like that. You're entitled to your opinion though and I respect that.
In reponse to a statement I made that's been quoted a few times in other posts My favorite method of hunting whitetails is with the muzzleloader. But, I hunt every season because it's there and I enjoy the outdoors and they taste great!
Finally, last but not least in reply to Jbow Maybe we should have a "real archer" season.

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RE: crossbows
 

I'm against them, unless one has a LEGITIMATE disability. I found it odd that a man with open heart surgery who has a cross bow permit is still physically able to climb 20' up in a tree. Just seems odd. JMO.

RE: crossbows
 

While I respectfully disagree with allowing Crossbow's to be used during archery season, I appreciate your tone and thoughtful replies Pace Maker.

I also wouldn't want to give up any of my beloved archery season for a crossbow only season. My point was more that rather than lump crossbows into the same category as archery equipment, perhaps start with authorizing their use during a muzzleloader or primitive firearms season. If there was interest in utilizing crossbows during a firearms season I would think there may be some justification of opening up other opportunities for them. I know many archers who hunt all season with just their bows, if crossbow hunters (or potential crossbow hunters) are really out there .. I would imagine they would welcome this opportunity.

I'm going to switch gears for just a moment. I personally don't believe there is a large contingent of gun hunters who "want" to shoot crossbows. There may be some .. but I don't think there is many. I base this on the ease of purchasing a bow to take advantage of the longer, early season. If hunting the early season was important to a hunter .. not unlike Pace Maker, they would pick up archery to take advantage. Like I said .. there may be a few .. but I really doubt many would choose the crossbow. I think more bad archers would start shooting a crossbow than new hunters would pick it up.

I don't think we are even having this conversation unless the Crossbow companies weren't pushing so hard for this. When a company is pushing to change wildlife policies .. and not a true ground roots hunter push .. well, let's just say I doubt the actual validity of the claim.

As much as I cringe at the thought of people walking the woods during archery season with their crossbows cranked back .. 12" bolts at the ready. I to would vote to legalize them. Here in Massachusetts they have made it so hard to hunt with any weapon, allowing them to take away another weapon would be just wrong. I feel strongly that place is in a primitive fire arms season .. not archery season. If it were to run during archery season .. it should be just a small part of it.

RE: crossbows
 

Nothing at all is stopping people from picking up a compound and hunting with it. The crossbow would be just another option to the bow season as is the flintlock, percussion and inline to the muzzleloader season. Compound users don't ask longbow or recurve users to participate in another season. Maybe it wouldn't draw anyone to the sport, but maybe it would, who knows. I guess what it really boils down to is the number of people in the woods during archery season. It seems that a lot of the posts I read just don't want the added pressure to the bow season. The only disadvantage I can see is the poaching aspect. But, then again, if someone is going to poach, chances are they are going to do it anyways. I strongly agree that anyone worth their salt shooting a bow can out shoot a crossbow. There is no question in my mind about that. I have a friend who has a crossbow permit and we shoot together all the time and I can see it's not a miracle weapon by any means. I hunt with a lot of older guys, who have had a hard time with the compound in recent years. One bought a crossbow and a few of the others have shot it and yes for them it shoots better than the compound. It doesn't matter to me if the person is 12 or 80 to get them in, or back in the sport is what I was talking about. I just figured it was another choice people would have. I know quite a few people, mostly older that cannot comfortably pull back a compound and therefore do not hunt the archery season. Is that fair? Watch 6 weeks of prime deer hunting time go by in Massachusetts because you can't participate? I don't believe there is a large group of people out there waiting to jump into the sport if they legalize crossbows, all I'm saying is it gives people another option................John

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RE: crossbows
 

i knew when i posted this i would get this responce out of the so called(archers)what makes you a archer.lets put the disability thing aside.i am so tired of hearing the same thing out of the so called archer we practice we have to draw our bow with out spooking the quarry,this is our season we don't want others intruding on our season.do you think a crossbow is invisable that you don't have to do the same other than drawing it back.you still need to pick it up,get it into position,and know theyardage.a couple yds. different you still get the same result a bad shot or a good one.and as for the dedication,i have personally seen bows being bought the nite before the season they called themselves archers i know they are want a bees.but neverless they were archery hunting.also was mentioned about the crossbow bolt well when you put a broadhead on it it still does the same damage as an arrow.(just shooter),which i have arrows laying herethat are 24"long for a compound with overdraw now this wouldn't be considered trational but its only 1"longer than my bolt.whether you use longbow,recurve,compound,or crossbow the thing that comes out the end still has two things on it.broadhead,and feathers and is used to do the same thing harvest a deer,elk or what else.we don't want time in rifle season that would be insane how many animals would be recovered by the person using a crossbow and not being taken by another hunter,they don,t drop like fly's with the crossbow. now to end this long reply what my intentions in this was to show everybody the bickering between fellow hunters, no matter what tool you use enjoy the sport of hunting and protect our rights against the growing anti hunters. macbe..............

RE: crossbows
 

The guys who buy a bow the night before the season shouldn't be allowed in the woods. PERIOD. The problem is, that's JUST the type that will buy a crossbow if they become legal in archery season. The crossbow manufacturers have done their homework. they know a sizeable number is out there waiting for an easy way into a difficult sport.
DONT GIVE IT TO EM GUYS!!!!