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RE: crossbows
 

To bad cardeer doesn't post here anymore.. From what I remember he has alot of exprriance with crossbows. Maybe do a search and pull up some of his threads.

RE: crossbows
 

My worry truly isnt that it's too efficient, but that it will attract exactly the wrong kind of hunter. We have too many of that type in the gun season. we sure don't want em out there wounding deer and generally making hunters look bad in the bow season.

The fact that the manufacturers research show that if legalized many will buy them reinforces my point. To those archers who tend to say "what can it hurt?" ask yourself why those that would hunt with a crossbow don't just buy a traditional bow and hunt with it?

RE: crossbows
 

To those archers who tend to say "what can it hurt?" ask yourself why those that would hunt with a crossbow don't just buy a traditional bow and hunt with it? BECAUSE THEY ARE TO LAZY!!! IT'S ALL ABOUT WANNABE'S LOOKING FOR A SHORT-CUT(aside from the handicapped, of course). Real archers are dedicated to their sport. It makes a big difference! How many successful archers are there out there who are begging to use a crossbow? OK- -NOW ENTER ALL THE LIARS!!!
I say keep 'em out of the woods![:'(]

J-BOW

RE: crossbows
 

No we aren't. Crossbows are not "archery" equipment. Yes they are almost as old, and have a storied history. Yes they are not the deadly accurate killing machines some people envision. But you are definitely NOT an "Archer" when shooting crossbow bolts at deer.

For the disabled and for the weak who can get medical permission slips, they are a viable alternative for people who do not possess the physical abilities to take advantage of the longer archery seasons. But trying to argue that crossbows are the same as archery equipment just can't fly. They are different .. completely different. If a hunter wants to take advantage of the longer archery seasons .. they should buy a bow and practice like the rest of us, not try and negotiate a work around. Again, disabled is different.

It would be the same as arguing for muzzleloader season to include rifles, what's the difference now with the advancements in ML's???? Or in-lines during Flintlock season???

If crossbows are included in archery season, or have their own season .. I can live with it .. but please don't think for a second you are an "Archer" when shooting a crossbow. Come up with another name .. Crossbowman ... Boltslinger... Bangsticker .. but Archer is taken.

Regardless of what argument you make .. I can pick up a crossbow, set the scope or sights for 20 yard's then hand that same crossbow, shooting the same bolts to any random person with some shooting ability and they will be dead on. I've seen it done dozens of times. On the other hand, there isn't a person alive who can pick up my bow, click on a release or use fingers and using my sights and peep .. and be dead on. WAY to many variables involved.

RE: crossbows
 

MA Jay-
I AGREE 100%

J-BOW

RE: crossbows
 

Personally, I have no problem with crossbows being allowed during the archery season. If it makes you a more accurate hunter what's not to like? I hunt Massachusetts, I not only bow hunt, I shotgun hunt, and muzzleload. I have a lilfelong friend who owns a very popular archery shop in my hometown. All I know is when I go up there and look at the money people have in their compound bows, I really can't believe it. Sure you may be able to sight in a crossbow with a scope and hand it to a friend and have him put it in the ten ring with every shot (which makes for a cleaner kill in my mind) but, you can also go to the counter and have a bow set up for you in about a half hour and have yourself shooting very accurately same night. I've seen it many times, people come into the shop, having never shot a bow and leave hitting the bull consistantly at 20yards by the end of the night. I'm not saying they are ready to hunt, but in most of their minds they are. If someone wants to argue advancements in bow hunting, (not that a crossbow in my mind is an advancement), what about all the technology there is in compounds?!! It's crazy. The way I read this thread, before you know it we'll have a season for longbows, recurve's, compounds, and crossbows. IT SHOOTS ARROWS! IT'S NOT A 300 WIN MAG. YES IT REQUIRES LESS TIME TO GET ON THE PAPER AND BE ACCURATE, BUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? I hunt a lot, a real lot and I what bothers me more about hunting than anything is the amount of dead deer I find each year with arrows in them. Alot of people don't take the time to practice, or have the time to practice. If it's easier to shoot a crossbow, and it makes you a more accurate shooter, whats wrong with that? It's all about clean kills and less wounds. I don't think the crossbow is the save all to wounded deer by any means, it's still shot placement. Pick a spot. Myself, I call people who shoot longbows and recurves archer's not the high tech bows of today. I know I can outshoot a crossbow with my compound, hands down because I practice. But, a lot of people don't have time to practice and if the crossbow will enable them to make a cleaner kill, all the power to them. I'd be a liar if I said I never wounded a deer with a bow, I have a few times, I know how it can be. I archery hunt because the season is during the best time of the year, it's not my favorite method of hunting by no means. I like to reach out and touch deer on occassion. I don't know what kind of fantasy world a lot of the bow hunters in this forum live in but I live in a heavily bow hunted part of Massachusetts and believe me, there aren't a whole lot of great shooters out there. To think that the crossbow idea would attract the "wrong kind of hunters" might be the pot calling the kettle black, a lot of the "wrong kind of hunters" are already out there. As stated before, I spend a lot of time up the archery shop and I can't tell you how many times in the course of the season I hear, "I hit one, but I couldn't find it". I say the more people attracted to sport, the better we are, because we are a dying breed, like it or not.

RE: crossbows
 

Pace Maker-

I respect your opinion as a fellow hunter and Massachusetts resident, but I disagree. The same reasons you give in defense of allowing crossbows during archery season are exactly WHY I would like to see them NOT allowed.

You make a great point here, but if some "Archer's" are not taking the time to practice enough to become 100% proficient, how can we expect that "new" crossbow hunters will practice enough with their weapons to make themselves proficient??? The main reason many rifle/muzzleloader/shotgun hunters do not ALSO hunt during archery season is they don't care to invest the time and effort to become proficient with a bow. The reason for the longer archery season is not to monopolize the woods for archers (I also hunt with rifles/ml's/shotguns) but it is due to the inherent limiting factors in archery, it takes more invested time and effort to score with a bow than any other weapon.
I agree, the advancements in archery equipment are staggering and the cost of some of the equipment is insane .. but you have to be honest here.. all that money and technical development has stretched the effective range of a bow for the average shooter from about 20 yards to about 30 yards. For that same "average" shooter there needs to be a VERY significant time investment with that same bow to be truly effective even at 30 yards. I guess my point here is that, regardless if you shoot a long bow, recurve, single or cam and 1/2 bow .. if you are a "true" archer and practice with your bow to become 100% proficient .. the most technology can buy you is about 15 extra yards in a hunting situation. That 15 yards I don't think warrants splitting the seasons. Now you are talking about bringing a totally different weapon into the woods during archery season. A crossbow is as different from a bow as an inline muzzleloader is from a rifle or slug gun. The truth is a ML now is equivalent or better than a shotgun, and equal to many rifles in performance ... but since it is a different weapon, with it's own following .. it has it's own season. That's ultimately at the heart of my argument .. a crossbow is not archery equipment. I'll use Pennsylvania as an example of a state the recognizes a "Primitive Weapon" season .. aka. the Flintlock season. Now if your state is "over run" with deer and you need to recruit more hunters to kill them .. go ahead and allow your crossbows. Still doesn't make it equivalent of archery equipment. Also, last time I checked .. here in Mass, we've got deer but we are definitely NOT over run!

Sadly, that is a fact. For the animals sake I wish that was the case with only archer's, but it isn't. There aren't a lot of "great" shooters in general. The lack of land and opportunity to practice and the shifting away from shooting in general has hurt this generation of "shooter" in my opinion. I personally think it is naive to think that introducing weapons which are....

... will result in cleaner kills. If the allure of crossbows is they are easier to shoot and require less dedication to become proficient .. then I have to believe the results will be exactly the same as ALL other hunting seasons with every weapon. Some ethical and dedicated hunters will use them the way they were intended and have the self discipline to use them well, some "slobs" will use them as the silent poaching tool they have dreamed of and as an excuse to not practice at all, and then some guys will pick them up and with a minimum of effort and practice stretch the weapons capabilities to their absolute maximum. Either way .. you are still going to find those dead, poorly hit deer .. just a lot more of them because you will be putting a finesse weapon that requires practice and self discipline to master into the hands of people who have avoided archery hunting for those exact 2 reasons.

RE: crossbows
 

I archery hunt because the season is during the best time of the year, it's not my favorite method of hunting by no means. PLEASE....NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE, BUT THAT SAYS IT ALL TO ME RIGHT THERE!!! I LIVE TO BOWHUNT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I AM 100% DEDICATED TO THE SPORT. I WOULD JUST AS SOON SEE GUN HUNTING GO AWAY, ALTHOUGH I KNOW IT CAN'T OR WON'T!
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN...... IT'S ALL ABOUT WANNABE'S LOOKING FOR A SHORT-CUT(aside from the handicapped, of course). Real archers are dedicated to their sport. It makes a big difference!

J-BOW

RE: crossbows
 

Honestly, I think you are the first person I've ever encountered that has bowhunted and yet it isn't his favorite method of hunting whitetails. I assume you don't have great success....or much success at all?

Regardless, hunting isn't about how easy it is or how little commitment you have. Hunting is about winning a battle with your most respected quarry. I don't kill deer for the fun of it, I kill deer because I'm asked to, because it's a challenge, because I feel more at peace with myself, etc. Making it easy does nothing but detract from that!