From what I've both seen and heard from the vast majority of hunters I know that hunt in PA, the overall QUALITY of bucks has dramatically improved in the 2 years that his program has been in place. I've also been told that the numbers of bucks is higher too for the same reason. I wish that MD would adopt this same philosophy. I knew it would be hard for a couple years--esp on those who just "have" to shoot a buck, no matter how small-- to feel lioke a man. Now, look at the pay-off.

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I think the game commission is doing a good job lots of bigger deer. not alot around but the ones i see are big itll just keep gettin betta i hope.

I'm happy with the regulations in some areas where I hunt.Those areas are mostly private property with limited access and huge overpopulations.The deer herd needs to be severly reduced in these areas and more bucks need to be saved.In contrast I also do alot of hunting near my home in northern Clearfield county.This area is mostly public land with almost unlimited access.According to the pgc,we've been below the goal of 15 dpsm since at least 1999.I put alot of time in so I'm fortunate enough to kill a decent buck every year with my bow in this areaIt ain't easy though.Sometimes I go for days without a single sighting.This is a stark contrast to what I experience in other parts of the state where the deer herd is 2 to 3 times Alt's goal.*

I realize the need to balance the herd with the habitat.For years I said we had too many deer in most places.I have no problem with reasonable reducytion or with ar.However,when you take the herd below 15 dpsm,there is no possible way you will have more and bigger bucks as Alt promised.The accepted deer density for saw timber is 21 dpsm.The accepted deer density for timber in the seedling stage is 60 dpsm.Currently every management unit in the state has a goal of 15 dpsm or less with the exception of unit 2f which has a goal of 17 dpsm.These figures where taken directly from the pgc website.Again I recognize the need to balance the herd with the habitat but the goal for every area in the state is more than 50% less than what the habitat can support.*

Many areas of the state are still way above the stated goals.Therefore hunters in these areas can expect to see their hunting temporarily improve until the goals are met.At that time,additides toward Alt will change drastically.I keep hearing hunters judge each other calling some crybabies and whiners because they complain of seeing so few deer.Well unfortuanetly,these hunters are are simply living out Alts deer density goals for their areas.Eventually everyone will be in the same boat.Alt has stated numerous times that he will do whatever it takes to achieve these goals.Even if it means employoing sharpshooters,greatly extending antlerless season and handing out unlimited antlerless allocations.If you don't believe me,do a google search and read some of the comments he's made on dcnr's website.*


Anyone that thinks Alt will improve our hunting in the long run just doesn't understand what this is all about.It's not about you,me or the deer.It's all about our certified forests.Our forests get recertified this year and Pa is in danger of losing it's certified status.This will prevent Pa from being able to export it's timber and cost the state millions of dollars per year.When our forests were certified the last time,it was written right into the conditions of recertification that our deer herd needed to be severly reduced.I have the 46 page certification report in front of me andI'll send it to anyone that is interested.The guy that certified our forests in Byron Shissler.Conveniently,he now works for dcnr and is Alt's right hand man with deer management.Do a google search on him,Alt,dcnr or the audubon and see for yourself.This isn't about the deer guys.It's all about our state timber.If you have good hunting now enjoy it while it lasts because ALT will do whatever it takes to reach his goals.I'm experiencing what he wants as an end result and it isn't pretty.Trust me,when the goals are achieved in your area as they where in mine you will see less bucks overall and less bigger ones.*

Alt is not doing this for the hunters.He is a state employee and this certification is worth alot more to the state than the deer are.His agenda is about timber not deer.I used to be an Alt supporter.I was very excited when he took over because I wanted to see change.However.His lies and misrepresentations have been more than I can take recently.How can he say the herd has not been reduced in the last three years when he touted an 8 % reduction in 2001 followed by the biggest kill in hitory the next year?

I must be hunting the wrong area here in PA then. I live in South Western Pa in Somerset County we are supposed to have one of the highest deer populations in the state. I saw 2 deer the first day of rifle season. Although i did harvest a spike yes i have a permit to hunt from a vehicle so it was legal. LoL. i wasn't pleased at all. My father hunted all rifle season and only saw 7 deer!!! I saw 14 deer all through out archery season. Something is mighty weird here in my opinion.Thanks

Slayer

OK Everyone, I am an un-informed and bad hunter. I will agree that I am not the best hunter. I have a job and to get good at hunting, I need to spend more time than I am. Seriously though, let it be on record that I agree that doe management does keep the deer population in line. But, and I am being serious, what is the purpose of only killing big bucks? As numerous idiots wrote on this board that you can't eat the antlers, why only shoot big bucks? I am only going to throw the antlers away anyhow. With that being said, what is the different than a 1 1/2 old buck and a 4 1/2 old buck.... ? Does the older bucks breed more? Is the younger buck inferior? I really have never heard a good argument other than bigger bucks and more meat. If you want more meat, shoot a big doe.

You got a good point there CattNy i agree 100%. Doe management is a part of hunting, and saving young bucks in my opinion only creates more problems. I have no trouble throwing some lead at a spike. I dont hunt for horns all though they are nice i am a meat hunter. I'll go out and shoot a doe anyday rather than come home empty handed.!

Only time will tell if the new regs.will work but the one thing I do hate about Antler Restrictions is the way it has divided hunters as a whole.Regardless if you are for or against AR's we still need to stick together as a group to protect our sport.

If that's really true, then you're definitely in the minority. Most deer hunters want to shoot the biggest buck they can. Even meat hunters would admit to this. And many hunters will shoot any buck they can because it massages their egos. Earlier in this thread you said

Why say this if you're really only going to throw the antlers away? Does make better eating and a big doe provides more meat than most 4 points.

My point it this. Shoot the does and let the little bucks walk and get closer to their potential. Shoot a 4 point now and he'll never get any bigger. Give him a few years and he could potentially be the next state record. And most hunters will admit to wanting to be the one who got him.

AR's was the candy up for grabs, the cheese in the trap, if you will, to get the PA hunters to buy into our deer destruction program. "Ooooh, I'll get to shoot a monster 10 ptr, like I see in all them hunting magazines! Sure Dr Alt, I'll let you kill off our deer herd in return!"

Well said, DougE!