BTBowhunter

Mike, you're right! We do agree on this one.

Model 722, I think your almost a century behind here! Most species now thrive compared the turn of the century because Man has worked to undo the slaughter of the 1800's. As for the cougar, I wouldn't want to re-introduce em either. Look at the California problems. Most eastern states are now too populated for it to be feasible for man to co-exist with the big cats. On the other hand, if they adapted (dont think they ever will) and came back on their own like the coyote has I might be ok with it as long as they didnt start snacking on people!

liquidorange

i will say something on a larger scale. i watch the shows on the science channels and it sickens me to see these crocodile hunter type guys (and theres a bunch of them now) preaching that we need things like poison snakes, crocodiles, killer bees. i just dont think we need them in great numbers in any highly populated areas. if you watch these type shows all they really do is harrass animals. they catch them show them off and then release them. i saw a show yesterday with that Oshea guy ( who i like) trying to save snakes on an island where hundreds are killed every year because of there bite. WE ARE TOP PREDATOR AND DONT NEED THESE ANCIENT EXTREME KILLING LIFE FORMS TO COMPETE WITH. since we are top of the food chain i dont think there is much need to worry about sharks when we eat all the tuna anyway. life is evolving and changing.

Aught Six

The bottom line in my books is that we need to manage the land that we've settled. America has almost no true wilderness left; this is mostly due to human population of land in this country. So it's up to us neither to wipe everything out, nor let a species populate uncontrollably, but to keep all animals in balance with the enviroment around us. Cougars are good to a certain point, but responsibility on our part is the name of the game.

Personally, I think the Eastern Cougar Foundation is a crock. They seem to be the kind of people to perform "feel good" actions without looking at the long term consequences. Sure, let the cougars come back. But make sure the people allowing it are doing so for the right reasons.

model722

BTB

Cali is the reason I said conservation, if we bring these animals "back were they belong" then we need conservation. We can't bring these animals in then just let them over populate, we would still need guide lines. The coyote has become a big problem because it as no higher wild power to kick its arse. Sure humans hunt and do our share but we are still limited by law, number of hunters etc... It would still be nice to have nature work the way she is suppose to. Besides big cats don't over populate like coyotes, deer etc... I may be behind the times or maybe I just don't care for the city way of life. The animals that are thriving are the ones we hunt the most, deer, elk etc... wolves, big cats, bears and other creatures are no where near what they were before whitey came along.

Liquidorange

So what creature's diserve to live and which ones should be killed off? Humans are worse on the earth then any animals that I've ever heard of. I agree that all things need to be kept under control(to many of anything is bad), but why should we kill just because we don't like something?

Aught Six

Very well said, we (humans) can not keep just destroying everything without giving some thought.


With all of this said I want to add something else, years ago people said if you see a bat, kill it, horrible little creatures, spreading disease etc etc etc... Well that was not only "REALLY" stupid but it also help the spread of mosquitos. Bats have been proven to be one of our BIGGEST helpers, but because of ignorance we have put them on the sh** list. I built a pond some years back, I love sitting out there at night but because of the mosquitos I couldn't stand to stay out. I built a bat house, and within 2 years I am able to sit next to my pond and enjoy the night. Those little nasty creatures have been a huge help, and I owe them alot. If cougars could help get rid of our newer problem up here(coyotes) I'm all for it.

Grizzlybear

Aught-six and model772,

Wow! I thought I would be the odd man out here. I stand in agreement with you.

model722

I did alittle research on this, I found a site which I believe is the one we are talking about www.easterncougar.org. These folks seem like they know there stuff, and seem to be going about things in a cautious manner. I think the key word here is education, lets give them a chance to atleast tell their side.

We can not compare Cali to us, but we can learn from some of their mistakes, and natural problems(fires, floods, animal management) If we keep going the way we are the only way our grand kids are going to see any of these beautifull creatures is through a fence at some damn zoo. If the indians and our ancesters could live with these critters why shouldn't we be able too? Have we become so afraid of the wild that we need to change it to fit our needs? Like I have said there are hundreds of animals that cause alot more trouble then these types of critters, just take the common household pet "the dog".

MikeE51848

"If cougars could help get rid of our newer problem up here(coyotes) I'm all for it. "
What happens when that cougar can't find a yote? Your 2 year old toddler in your back yard or your 10 year old waiting for the bus will suffice. This is not 1800's Colorado were living in.

"I have to say when did humans become God and decide what goes were? "

A long time ago, in the bible, God said "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground".

model722

Did you ever hear of a little thing called responsibility. Would you take your 2 year old to the shopping mall and just turn him/her loose? Would you take your 2 year old to the lake and say have fun swimming, mom and I will be back in a couple of hours? If you live in the woods as I have/do then you learn respect and most of all responsibility. That is a lame argument please don't insult folks intelligents. Once again what is your solution to dog attacks, deer accidents, or how about all the human freaks? I don't understand where you are getting your info from as to humans being so high on the cougar dinner menu? You make it sound as if cougars only want to eat one thing humans?

First off doesn't your Bible say that God wanted us to watch over the other creatures? Secound why does your Bible tell of Noah saving 2 of "everything", not just 2 of the nice things, but 2 of "everything". Lastly this is your religion not mine, I believe in nature and see things alot different then most Christians. Once again if we are getting rid of animals because of their danger factor then it's time to wipe out deer.

You must have better arguments then these, do you see humans so high on the scale that we can play God and decide what goes where, when, how?

I'm not not trying to pick a pi**ing match with you, I am just trying to understand why you are so afraid of nature. If you were to go to Africa or Russia would you want all their big cats killed so you could live a worry free life?

griller

Didn't see the meeting. Didn't get to hunt in PA this year or last as i am trapped in Holand for work, but......

1) I am a believer in what Alt is doing.
2) Any hunter that the deer herd is hurting his crops and who doesn't let the the public hunt his land should be slapped about the head and shoulders. If the only peopl they let hunt are relatives and neighbors then they should not get money for deer damage and they should not complain about the damage. Farmers should be required to register with the PGC that they allow hunting on their farms by the public. This should be published. If they don't they should not get the perks.

Just an opinion.

griller

Sorry for the spelling in the prior. Must be tired.

Should have read " Any Farmers yelling that the deer herd is ruining crops"