bluebird2

I didn't know we were on a first name basis Oscar. Maybe you would like to post your name and address so I can send you a birthday card. And anytime you think that you can prove any of the items on that list isn't accurate go for it. But be forewarned that I can back up what I said with PGC data and quotes from Alt.

I have no doubt that Eveland exaggerated his bio, but that has nothing to do with validity of the issues he raised in his report. The vast majority of the issues he raised were discussed on the MBs long before Eveland released his report. Guys like you attack his credibility because you can't refute the facts he presented.

JW

Gentlemen - as in the past debate is healthy However personal attacks are against the HNI rules and will not be tolerated!

Let's not go there.

JW

J Pike

If this is true then why has PA. Pope and Young entries declined since 2004. And any buck entered prior to 2004 had nothing to do with antler restrictions. Pike

bluebird2

Guys like Cochy see a few pics of big bucks in the newspaper and think that AR's has greatly increased the number of 2.5+ buck,but they never look at the actual data on the 2.5+ buck harvest. If they did ,they would know that in 2009 we only harvested 2,300 more 2.5+ buck than we did in 2002 ,when none of the 2.5 buck were produced by ARs. They also ignore the fact that the harvest of 8+ pt. buck only increased by 17% from 2001 to 2009, while Alt predicted it would increase by 100%.

sproulman

blueb,respectfully reason that the 8 point increased by 17% is following from what i see.
pgc allowed this mentoured kids thing which i feel is awful. a kid at 5 yrs old can shoot ANY buck.from my info at butcher shops this is happening.from what i see in field, this is happening.this is reducing the bucks that reach a 8 point.

next 12/16 yr olds can shoot any buck.this is problem too because this is not allowing little bucks to grow up.are the 12/16 yr olds shooting the little bucks themselves, some are MANY ARE NOT.that is awful too.

then now you have less doe do to HR,hunters are not letting a button buck walk.they want BEEF JERKY,so they shoot the fawns.

THIS IS ALL REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BUCKS THAT MAKE IT TOO 8 POINT.i am surprised that it is working 17%.

it could work 100% if above was stopped.
1.mentoured kids rule is way for dad to fill his freezer
2.12/16 hunters in crews,ADULTS are shooting at any buck as long as 12/16 is there.
3.button bucks shot by desperate meat hunters

unless these 3 things are addressed, i see 17% going lower.

bluebird2

The number of buck harvested by junior hunters is so small state that it has little or no effect on the number of 1.5 buck carried over. Also,remember some of the successful junior hunters are killing 6 and 8 pts.

Alt made the claim that ARs would double the number of 8 pts. knowing that junior hunters and active military were exempt and he knew that with increased antlerless harvests the BB harvest would also increase.

sproulman

i did see a lot of huge bucks PICTURES killed by 5 yr old to 7 yr old kids,huge with 12 point racks on PUBLICLAND at 21 degrees.but when i went to 2 butcher shops in clinton/lycoming co.I GOT DIFFERENT PICTURE.

they said they had a LOT of bucks under the 3 point rule, a lot and kids when asked did not hardly know what a gun was let alone what caliber it was.
so a LOT of small bucks are being killed according to butcher shops.

bluebird2

No, you did not see a lot of pictures of 5-7 yr.olds with 12 pt. buck and nobody believes that you did. Until you can provide actual PGC data on the number of non-AR legal buck harvested by junior hunters, the majority of the MB members will say you are just blowing smoke.
Junior hunters are not the problem and are the future of deer hunting in PA. The PGC is the problem and making junior hunters abide by the ARs will just reduce the number of future hunters while accomplishing absolutely nothing.

sproulman

many believe what i say blue,many. you have right to believe what you think but dont say NOBODY believes me.
many times i asked if anyone would go with me to see and hear what i comment on.
as for pics, I ALSO POSTED THE NEWSPAPERS THAT HAD PICS OF 5 YR OLD GIRLS IN PINK WITH BUCKS And big ones.sorry,i did make mistake the 1 buck was 13 point,not 12 point.

never said JUNIOR IS PROBLEM.actually its ADULTS that are not letting the KIDS shoot their own bucks that are and will ruin the AR . what i said is IF THE SMALL BUCKS ARE HARVESTED BY THE KIDS 5 YRS OLD TO 17YRS OLD,i cant see AR working 100% as you stated dr.alt said it would.

hey, i am active member in USP too and i disagree with their rule no.2 to go back to killing the spike bucks like it was before.

to me, AR is great thing but it will only work if ADULTS dont use it to fill the freezer.

bluebird2

Junior hunters were exempt from ARs from the start so Alt knew they would be harvesting a very small percentage of the non-AR legal buck and he still claimed ARs would double the number of 8 pts and it didn't come close. But the main reason it didn't is due to continued HR and high BB harvests, not juniors or their parents shooting 1.5 buck.