PA Hunters
 

I have been out alot this bow season and havent seen any big boys yet, just woundering if everyone else has the same reaction? Comeing down to the final week amd 1/2:s14:

I hunted the early b/p doe season and saw 6 diff bucks and no does opening day from the same stand on public land.Did'nt see a doe until wed same stand.Out hunting squirrels last evening saw 2 does and a button buck same stand.I dont hunt with a bow because I'm handicapped and cant draw 1 other wise my season would be over with.
Going to Va on monday for a week of b/p cant wait.

Called in 7 bucks so far, all dinks. I know the big boys come through there, I catch them on the trail camera. just need to be out there as much as possible.

Hey Kolbysdad,

I am right with you. Me and about 5 of my buddies are beating our head in trying to figure out whats going on. Slowest year ever for us. Lots of chasing by smaller bucks, but no shooters. We have them on trail cam and know they are in the area, but just arent seeing them during hunting hours. Could be a late rut, could be hunting pressure. Lots of variables, but nothing like last year. Im hoping things pick up in the next 10 days.

But others on this site say your antler restrictions are working because they shot a big one. You guys must be looking in all the wrong places.

APRs always increase the percentage of 2.5+ buck in the harvest ,but due to herd reduction, in many areas both the total number of bucks and the number of 2.5+ buck have decreased significantly. This year I haven't seen a buck in our area of 5C since the second week of Sept. I haven't seen any rutting activity and I haven't seen a fresh rub or scrape the last two weeks. But judging by the size of a few of the old rubs,there is one nice buck in the area,however if no one gets to see him it doesn't do anything to improve the quality of hunting in our area.

The PGC isn't responsible for providing a high deer density on your 40 acres.Maybe expand your horizons,give that area a break and stop complaing about the poor hunting on one tiny spot.

But are they responsible for managing the entire herd to provide for the sportsmen. Just because you think one area is over hunted does not give you the right to tell others where to hunt. He is just stating what other hunters in area 5C are saying and that is that the PGC has allowed the area to be over harvested. And then you say it is not the PGC's fault but the hunter. You just prove why hunters are not getting anywhere lately because they are to darned busy picking on fellow sportsman instead of helping to find solution to the problems that exits. So DougE I am glad you are such a ahigh and mighty hunter that you can go anywhere you want but many hunters are very limited in there time and available hunting area. Thank you for seeing it through his eyes and trying to put your standards of huntign on all PA hutners.
So now would you please be so kind to provide the funds, time and prime hunting area you want all these hunters to go too. Now you can try and tell me where I am wrong but like you I will not listen. Typical antler bone hunter only after the racks.

The hunting isn't poor in just one tiny spot as you claim. It is poor in many areas of 5C and in many other WMUs.

If I give the area a break will you guarantee that the 121,960 other hunters that have doe tags for 5C( 125 tags PFSM). will give the area a break. We haven't harvested a doe in the past 5 years,isn't that giving the area a break? While you are benefiting from the loss of 200K deer hunters in just 9 years ,we aren't that lucky,so don't tell me what to do when you have no idea what the conditions are in 5C.

You have to be kidding me.First of all,BT has been banned from practically every message board multiple times for hijacking every thread and throwing personal attacks at anyone who disagrees with him.It's beyond laughable for anyone to say Bt IS GETTING PICKED ON.

Second,why anyone would scout at the end of the season before they determined there were few deer is beyond me.Along those same lines,it's ridiculous for someone to hunt an areas previously scouted that has little sign or few deer.Once again,it's not up to the PGC to see that the deer herd is spread evenly accross the state.I have areas that are deadly one week and a complete bust the next.The deer follow the food and as one food source dries up,they move on to greener pastures.They may not have to move far but you can't expect them to stay on BT's back forty all year long.

I have less time to hunt then most people.This year,I hunted 4 saturdays and hunted before work three times and I had to be out of the woods by 8:00am.Other than the first day of rifle season,I haven't taken a vacation day to hunt since 2003.I also live in 2G which has the lowest deer densities of any WMU in the state.I find and kill multiple deer on public land every single year.It's not hard.The hunting is still good but you have to be flexible andunderstand what deer need at different times of the year.Sitting in the same spot year after year,expecting to see dozens of deer by noon isn't gonna cut the mustard any more.Hunting was way too easy for too long and far too many hunters still expect it to be that way.

No, it is not ridiculous for me to hunt an area with little sign. I am hunting an area with good cover and an unlimited food supply where the deer do not have to move to different areas to find food or cover. This area has had reasonably good hunting until herd reduction took it's toll and left us with the worst hunting since the deer became established in this area in the 60's. Therefore, there is little reason to move to a new area with worse habitat and unknown deer density.

Furthermore, I no longer want to kill a deer bad enough to travel long distances and spend a lot of money just to kill a doe or two. So my choice is to either hunt the 300+ acres I have access to or quit. And ,if I quit 6 other hunters will also quit and my 13 yr. old niece won't have anyone to take her hunting, but I have no doubt that doesn't concern you one bit.

No,it doesn't concern me that you flat out refuse to hunt any other area.That's your choice but you have no reason to complain.On top of that,there isn't one county or twp for that matter that doesn't have decent hunting.It shouldn't cost anyone any money to find a decent place to hunt in Pa.

That is just your uninformed ignorant opinion unsupported by the facts. I belong to a hunting club that posts around 600 acres of deer habitat. One landowner has banned all deer hunting for two years and another has banned doe hunting. You have no idea what it is like to hunt in an area with intense hunting pressure since you are benefiting from the PGC's deer mismanagement which reduced hunting pressure in you area to next to nothing. You have no idea what it is like to have 10 hunters on 100 acres the first day of buck season or 125 doe tags PFSM. The maximum in 2g was 12 tags PFSM.

I have seen good rutting activity and lot's of dink buck. I have also seen three buck which I would call shooters and have trail camera pictures of a couple more shooters. Just couldn't close the deal with the bow. Hopefully I can catch up with one of them in rifle season.

You're right,I have no idea what it's like to have 60 some hunters per square mile.I wouldn't hunt an area like that and with that kind of extreme pressure,I wouldn't expect the deer to stick around that long.

DougE every time you post you stick your foot in your mouth. When will you finally realize that there are many more hunters than you out there and they are having a very tough time finding deer in PA. You say you only have 4 days to hunt but according to you there are more deer per acre in the same area no one else is seeing. Either all the other hunters are liars or someone else is. sorry but the facts speak for themselves. PA is a poor place to hunt deer in no matter how you tell your tales. Keep posting and we will all keep laughing.

So you hunt areas with good habitat, lots of deer and low hunting pressure because it is easy to kill unpressured deer, but you wouldn't be willing to hunt deer if there was a lot of hunting pressure.I'd say you just admitted you are benefiting from the PGC's mismanagement of our herd and hunters as I have pointed out on several occasions.

Now if you were really interested in improving the habitat in 2G you would be killing deer in areas with poor habitat and poor regeneration since there are lots of areas with poor regeneration even with low deer densities. But,I guess that would require more effort than you are willing to put forth.

Where did I say anything about how many deer per acres there is anywhere?I never even brought it up.Pa is not a poor place to hunt.It is if you hunt the same spot year after year that you know has little sign.Far too many people do that and then complain.

I never have and never would hunt an area that had more hunters than deer.That would make no sense.Anyone that would do so has no reason to complain.Furthermore,no hunter in this state is forced to hunt under those condition.If you do,it's becasue like you admitted,you choose too.Well,I don't feel bad for you.

I also never claimed to hunt in good habitat with few hunters.I hunt areas that have habitat that's either just starting to recover or areas that have food and cover.That doesn't mean good habitat.In fact,many of the areas have horrible habitat.There may be laurel for cover and a temprary mast crop but there's usually no browse,which deer need.These areas are often good for a short period of time and then there's no deer.That doesn't happen because they all get shot.It happens because once the food source is gone,there's no reason for the deer to be there.I have no guilt shooting as many deer as I can in poor habitat or habitat that's just starting to recover.I do it multiple times every year.So far,this year,I've killed 5 different deer in 4 different areas.I put forth the effort and it pays off,even in a WMU where so many people claim there's no deer.

Wrong again. The hunters in 5C are in fact forced to hunt under those conditions because someone has to do the work of controlling the herd and we wouldn't have such high hunter densities if the PGC didn't issue 125 doe tags PFSM and that means the hunters in 5 C have every right to complain about how the PGC has mismanaged our herd.

I'll agree that you probably do have a legitimate gripe for simply being lumped in with 5C.Overall though hunters in 5C are still killing loads of deer.

I have been out 8 times in the past 3 weeks, and harvested a nice 8-pointer and button buck. I have seen 6 different non shooter bucks and no does during shooting hours. However before climbing down the one night two sets of a buck chasing a doe ran through. This past Saturday while squirrel hunting I saw a nice 8-pointer walking through the woods very casual, as if he wasn't even in the rut. Unusual to not see a group of does together. But there around as they were in the summer. So overall 9 bucks and 2 does.

Or better yet Doug, Just keep killing then see who is laughing. Pa isn't a poor place to hunt, some people just aren't quite the hunters they thought they were. lol

But that is only because there are many areas where no hunting is allowed which protected those deer from the PA herd reduction plan. The hunters who have access to adjoining areas still shoot a lot of deer , but in those areas with little posted ground the herd has been hammered and the hunting is really bad. Its that bad that some land owners have closed their land to all deer hunting just so they can see a few deer during the year,even though they don't hunt.

I can see that as a legitimate gripe that needs addressed.However,it doesn't mean the entire herd or state has been mismanaged.

That depends on how you define mismanagement. IMHO managing the statewide herd based on solely on the regeneration of commercially valuable trees or on the personal prefence of a select group of stakeholders, IMHO constitutes mismanagement of our herd.

IMHO it was a gross mismanagement to manage deer based on a system of maximum sustained yield.The habitat suffered greatly as a result.

Since 1980 our herd has been managed based on deer density goals that were at least 50% below the MSY Carrying capacity. Furthermore,even when we had 1.6 M preseason deer, the herd was still well below the MSY carrying capacity.

It is truly amazing that after 10 years of debating these issues you still don't understand the meaning of the MSY carrying capacity or how our herd has been managed from 1980 to 2000.

I do understand what it means.It still doesn't change the fact that the deer had a huge negative impact on the herd across huge areas of the state.We needed less deer and that's what we got.

The deer did not have a huge negative impact on the herd as you claim nor did it have a huge negative impact on the quality of the habitat across huge areas of the state. The fact that breeding rates and productivity did not increase as the herd was reduced ,proves beyond all doubt that the herd was still well below the MSY carrying capacity in 2001. What changed was that in 1999 SCS audit required that DCNR reduce the herd in order to get their forests certified.

bluebird2. I was justwondering what your signature that states In Miss, Ars reduced the
average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state means. Just curious bc im from Mississippi

Here is a quote from the MDWFP.

"MDWFP DEER COMMITTEE
Chad M.Dacus
Deer Program Coordinator
(601) 432-2177 • [email protected]
William T.McKinley
Regional Deer Biologist
(601) 582-6111 • [email protected]
Chris McDonald
Regional Deer Biologist
(601) 757-2313 • [email protected]
Why not the 4-Point Law?
Research conducted by the MDWFP and Mississippi State University indicates the 4-point law has reduced
the antler size of harvested 2.5 and 3.5 year old bucks across the state. Researchers and biologists believe the
4-point law allows the harvest of better quality yearling bucks, while protecting lesser quality spikes and 3-
point bucks. The result has been a decrease in antler size within age classes of older bucks. The combination
ofthe 4-point law, high hunting pressure, and lower reproduction has resulted in the over-harvest of bucks and
decreased antler size in deer herds across Mississippi.
To correct these problems, quality yearling bucks must be allowed to reach older age classes. Antler
restrictions that protect a high percentage of 1.5 year old bucks while limiting the high-grading of 2.5 year old
bucks are needed. This protection will prevent over-harvest of bucks and improve antler size as bucks get older.
These protected bucks will also improve skewed buck:doe ratios, resulting in a shorter breeding season. A
shorter breeding season will provide a more uniform fawn crop with regards to future body weights and antler
production. "

Ok,that's why they couldn't get acceptable regeneration without having to fence practically every timber sale.The level of denial you possess is so unreal that it's actually scary.

That only applied to oak stands in the NC counties. During the period from 1980 to 2000 thousands of acres were harvested on private land a virtually none of it was fenced by it still regenerated. Furthermore, after 80 years of over browsing we still have a lot more forested acres than we did in 1940,which means there was a whole lot of regeneration going on at much high deer densities than we have today and DCNR is still fencing their oak cuts.

bluebird2

Thanks for the info. I hunt 5300 acres that me and my family either own or lease and we have a 3.5 year old rule. A buck has to have a minimum of 8 points and at least a 16 inch spread or better before we shoot it. We have had this in place for 10 years and we see some really nice deer

You're welcome.

You sure won't have a problem with high grading with your restrictions.

After 8 yrs. of APRS our PGC refuses to release any data on the rack sizes of our 2.5+ buck.

Thats crazy. We shoot some doe's every year to put meat in the freezer but only shoot
the older bucks. Now we do have a block of 319 acres that is about 10 miles from the rest of our land and we have no restrictions on it. We use it mainly to take our kids so they can shoot whatever

Needless to say I envy you. Your MDWFP has conducted the best test of APRs of any state in the country and was willing to admit that it did not produce the results predicted by their computer models. PA used MS computer models to justify implementing APRs in PA but will not admit that high grading is a potential problem even though our APRs save a lot fewer 1.5 buck than MS APRs.

Love the way somethink itis OK to insult other hunters just because they think they are the superior hunters and can lord it over them because the superior ones hunt with controlled property and manyother benefits. That makes it OK for them to insult the NORMAL hunter who must hunt where eveand only when they have time from work. These same hunters insult their felloow sportsman that they do not know, have no idea of their skills or capabilities or anything else about them but they feel it is OK the degrade them. So yes DougE and others you do stick your feet in your mouths by not going to 5C and hunt to prove your point. Instead you sit in your hunt clubs and think you are a normal everyday hunter. Guess what you are the one who is wrong as you can not prove their is no problem inb 5C.. Go there and hunt a season on public game land then tell us how many deer you shot. But that won't happen becasue you feel you are the better hunter. Prove it.

Do you hunt in 5C vapahunter?