WNYhunter

well I will play devils advocate. But why the big push for xbows? I don't care what people use as long as it's legal. But why the big push? Are you saying "well the older folks" or "the handicapp" or "we just want them".....

I am not a big xbow fan for my own reasons, but I hate to see anyone sit home thats wants to hunt but cant pull a bow back. And rest assurred, if it is made legal to hunt with them across the board. I will have one.

DeerandbearhoG

It really has nothing to do with xbows, or any weapon, its about supporting other hunters who DO want to use them. Dont you think the antihunters and antigunners support eachothers agendas? Strength in #s, its simple. I think youre missing the point, whether someone is handicap,old,female,whatever...its irrelevant. why should the DEC restrict a weapon for ANYONE, cause its easier to hunt with??? Do you hunt with a gun? Should the DEC restrict guns because you can pysically pull back a compound bow? Seems absurd to me.

Friend ,with all due respect again, I think you are a little confused on the subject. On one hand, you claim to have a personal beef with Xbows, but then you also want to see more hunter participation, but.... only for those who arent strong??????.... but then you say, at the end of the day, despite your dislike of Xbows, you would hunt with one if they were legal????? Seriously ,im not trying be a dik, but does that make any sense?

Let me make it real simple for anyone who doesnt understand why restricting weapons, is bad for all of us. If they can stop you from using something you dont want to use, than they can take away something you do use. Why give them more power? Theyve taken enough from us in this state. I dont care if its a freakin high powered slingshot, if you care about hunters and shooters rights, SUPPORT IT!!!!!!

WNYhunter

My beef with the xbow is just a personal one really which I am leaving out of this topic. has nothing to do with the equipment you use. Overall, I think it would be a "plus" for us hunters.

and why I would buy one, every year I have 3 favorite hunting days. opening day of bow, opening day of gun and opening day of muzzel loader. I am just as exited on day 60 as I am on day 1. I heard one plan is to have a seperate late season for xbows, now I would have a 4th favorite day.....

But, if for some reason the law doesn't pass. I hope they allow them for certain people. Like I said, nobody should be sitting home wishing they could be hunting, period....

Bob H in NH

Weapons restrictions already DO exist, some for common sense reasons, such as caliber limits, some for safety reasons, such as shotgun only in some zones/states, some for who knows, like full auto, clip size restrictions etc.

I am on the side of introducing a crossbow season is fine, with the following conditions:
- It's it's own season, maybe double up on a tag like NH does with muzzleloader (uses the firearms tag), but regulated as it's own season so that deer kill and success rates can be tracked weapon by weapon so that we have good control of raising or lowering the deer kill as needed.

- the deer herd can handle the increased hunting traffic. Adding another weapon will increase hunter numbers or at least hunter "days". Logically it follows that this will increase deer kill. If the herd can handle it, great, go for it.

- If the herd can't handle the increased deer kill, then we have an issue. Not a crossbow issue, but a hunting season issue.

It should not be about the weapon, but about the health of the deer herd.

noidurism

they been legal in ohio for years and we still don't have any problems.

DeerandbearhoG

Bob, Im sorry if this comes off as angry, but posts like this, chocked full of misconceptions, myths and misinformation ,are becoming a bit frustrating. The so called ,common sense caliber restrictions, are ridiculous and pointless, because theyre implimented by people who know nothing about guns/ballistics. in NY, any ceterfire is legal, but buckshot is not, so basically to the NY dec, a load of 00buck is inefficient, but a 25 acp is Another completely rediculous myth, does anyone really think a sabot slug is any less likley to hit a house than a rifle, if the boob behind the trigger shoots in the direction of one? Do we really want to let the liberal antigun/antihunting legislature in NY, decide whats safe? sure they already do, but why the hell would you ,as a hunter, support that? "Tracked weapon by weapon"??? Where do you folks get these ideas from? Deer harvests are recorded, at least in NY, through the automated reporting system, (which is pretty much the "honor system"), when you fill out a tag. DMPs(doe management tags) can be filled using any weapon, and gun season tags can be used in ML season too. Its sad, but many people do not even tag or report deer, so its hardly an accurate system, but even if it was, what difference would it make in determining whether to "raise or lower the deer kill" if the deer was killed by a Xbow oct 1st or a compound oct 15th????? makes no sense whatsoever!

All that aside, the idea that Xbows should be in a separate season is also misguided. the whole point is to increase opportunities and participation in the ARCHERY SEASON, not create a new one. Now Im all for increasing the length of archery season, by starting it 2-4 weeks earlier, but what the heck is the point of only allowing certain types of bows during certain weeks? A broadhead does the same thing, regardless of what launched it. Does anyone hear that thumping noise? its me pounding my head against the wall as I read what some of you think. How in the heck is an increase in participation, going to increase the harvest? legal harvest increases, can only be achieved ,through an increase in issued tags, not an increase in legal weapons! no ones saying increase the amount of tags, just increase the amount of opportunities we can have to fill em, why cant people grasp this?
exactly! thank you for making my point for me, Thats why I think, if were going to allow Xbows, as we should, it should be for use in achery season, we should not have an additional xbow season, as you suggested. the only intent behind not allow them in archery season, is selfishness and greed. I would not worry about the health of the deer herd, as far as over hunting, if anything, you should be worried about under hunting. here in westchester ,rockland and the more populated communites of orange and even sullivan counties, and also n. jersey ,the deer are way over populated, there are littlerally dozen feeding and bedding on lawns everywhere, and car collisions are out of control. there are plenty of available tags for these areas. we NEED more hunter participation in these communities, and legalizing X bows is a perfect step in the right direction. Or, maybe youd rather the state hire snipers?

moosemike

I read your sig line. I don't ever have to sign in to come on here. Check your settings, there may be a timer for being logged in. If there is, set it to "forever" or "stay logged in".

DeerandbearhoG

Thanks, but i looked and I didnt see that option in the User CP under login and privacy .

Bob H in NH

I really don't think we are disagreeing to the extent you think we are, let me try to clarify.

I don't agree with the idea, but you point out valid issues with the implementation. My experience is in NH, not NY, so state to state they may make more or less sense. In NH, we have zones we can't hunt with a rifle, good or bad is an opinion, but due to congestion etc. when it was put in place, the difference in range was huge, it was pre rifled barrels, sabots etc. It was smoothbore with MAYBE a rifled slug. It simply won't go as far, but you make a 100% valid point, the idiot behind the trigger is a bigger thing.

For caliber restrictions, NH has lower limits on shotgun guage, rifle caliber and muzzleload caliber, as well as bow (and cross bow) draw weight.

for me it all comes down to tracking what deer are killed when, so that if adjustments are needed they can be logically made. In NH we are required to bring the deer to a check-in station, they record date, town, zone and weapon used to kill the deer, as well as info about the deer, sex, points, weight.

We, in NH at least, need to lower the deer kill in some zones and raise it in others. By tracking when it was killed, and what weapon was used, it allows you to target the changes you need. For example, NH statistics show the largest INCREASE in deer kill, in almost every zone, is by the muzzleloader season. this overlaps with archery, but comes before general firearms. The F&G biologists can they determine what the projected kill should be for the next few years and adjust the number of tags and season limit PER weapon to get the desired effect.

Not sure I am 100% on board here, the goal is to increase hunting opporatunities and allow more people to hunt. If the powers that be decide to treat a crossbow as a different weapon than a compound bow, ok, if they decide to treat it identically as a compound bow, ok thre as well. In either case, I have no issue either way, more participation is good.

My thoughts on tracking it is simple. Allows a cause and effect relationship to be established, then used to adjust, if needed, the deer seasons.

Again, I think you are missing the boat here. Adjusting tags to adjust kill will only work IF all tags are used. with success rates from 10-20% anyway, most tags are not filled. However with the same amount of tags, putting more hunters in the woods, or more days per hunter, you increase the opporatunites to fill the tags. Logic says, if there's more opporatunity, there will be more success, so the 10-20% success rate goes up, yet the total tags offered does not.

sorry, wrong again. Allow crossbows, I'm fine with that IF the biologists say the deer herd can handle it. Run it concurrent with todays archery season, great, fine with that again. All I am looking for is a definitive way to track the effect, if any, on the deer kill. So I see two options, I think the net effect of either will work for you (could be wrong):
1) Create a crossbow season, it uses the archery tag. (Here in NH our archery season runs 3 months and we have a seperate tag for archery as opposed to guns). run the season exactly the days we run todays archery season.
2) Add crossbows to todays archery season, but add to the deer registration form: Crossbow.

In either case F&G biologists can see the effect, if any, of introducing crossbows for the general public (already in place for handicapped). If the deer kill overall goes up 5%, yet rifle/muzzleloader/archery-compound bow, styed the same, then the increase is due to crossbows. Simple. At that point, if the deer herd remains healthy we are fine.

Over time, a pattern is established that x deer are killed on average, this is broken down by weapon, and the season can be adjusted, by weapon, to suite the needs of the herd. Days can be added/removed, tags added/removed across any weapon or all weapons, to get the desired effect.

There may be the big difference in your support vs my concern. NH is NOT over populated with deer, pretty much every zone is looking to increase the deer population (with the exceptoin of SE NH where they are looking to hold steady).

It's simple logic: increased participation will cause an increased kill. Can the deer herd handle it? If so, great, bring em on. If not, then we need to think it through, I don't have a general issue with adding crossbows, but the overall deer herd should be the determining factor, not politicians, not crossbow companys and not selfish hunters.

DeerandbearhoG

Bob, I understand your belief that an increase in participation, will increase harvests, but that could easily be addressed by adjusting the amount of issued tags and if they are not filled how can that hurt #s?. Think about it like this, in NY we get DMPs (doe management permits), some zones you have very little, or no chance of getting one, in others, like where I live, you are guaranteed 1 or 2 ,but rifles or at least sluguns & scoped muzzleloaders are legal in almost all zones. see, my point is tags should be whats uses to manage the deer harvest, not restricting weapons. Sorry if I came off jerky though, weapons restrictions/gun control in this state is a sore subject for me .