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More on the failed Pa game commission deer plan - audit article

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More on the failed Pa game commission deer plan - audit article

Old 03-04-2010, 07:13 PM
  #121  
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Back on 12-19-07 old chicken kicker was all full of hope and optimism willing to tell all how good HR was and how wrong those that opposed it were, my how times have changed. Now that he sees his future slipping through his fingers now that he has to live with what so many other hunters have had to deal with. It was all to easy to say those words wasn’t it john it a different ballgame when you have to live with what you support
Letter to editor in Times Observer today 12/19
Here is what I submitted, it was only slightly edited...I guess the editor never heard of a "deer yard", he changed it to "Deer herd".

“No deer!” I am tired of that saying. Let me ask my fellow hunters something, when did we move away from being stewards of wildlife and just become consumers who buy something and expect something, and if we don’t get it, we go after the seller? When people read the editorials on this subject I hope they don’t think all hunters share such a narrow vision.
Way too many are judging the current deer population on a few days in the woods in the Fall. Why should a deer herd be kept elevated to provide some days of recreation when it causes them to ruin their surroundings and barely live through tough winters? Remember huge winter deer yards and finding dead deer come spring? Seen those lately? Were those really “the good old days”? The deer we hunt deserve far more respect and care from us than that. Yes, the new program has knocked the herd way back, but it was meant too, it was called HERD REDUCTION. I don’t think anyone thought it would be done so well, but is hunting ruined forever? No way, in fact it has forever proven that hunters are the most effective means to reduce deer numbers. We are just being asked to be patient while a new balance is found. There is no big conspiracy to destroy all the deer. If agencies wanted the deer gone, why did the ANF not issue additional DMAP tags this year for the bulk of the national forest? And why did the PAGC not raise doe tag allocations to meet the huge demand that causes almost immediate sellout in our area?
Have some patience. Hunters that endure can look forward to many great years to come. Those that quit, well hey that ball is in your court. But is there anything wrong with having to spend more time in the woods all year to find the deer we seek? I mean being outdoors around here is a true blessing and a little patience and perhaps a tweak in attitude and you may just find hunting more rewarding and satisfying than ever before. If you choose to stay in the “good old days”, well then expect to be miserable just like that young deer that can’t reach any browse in late February. My family and I will choose the high road and continue to do what we feel is best as stewards of the forest and the deer.

So what will I do as a Father? Well here is my plan.
Make sure that the urge to fill the tag or bag the limit does not overtake the pace my kids need to enjoy the sport. Long term focus, not short term rewards are the goal of the hunt.
Get them thinking of the outdoors 365 days a year, not just October thru January. Sell the whole package and make sure they want to be part of the cycle of life and not just the harvest. Get them out to plant apple trees in the Spring, see the young fawns in summer, as well as the late winter carcasses of deer that succumbed to nature’s sometimes cruel hand.
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:34 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by DougE
You should really make up your mind.First,there's no deer near your place and now it's so easy to kill them,you don't even have to hunt for them.

Yes there's on average 15-20 deer feeding daily in a 30 acre bean/corn field I let stand for them ...just to keep them off the Gamelands so doe killers can't get them. But considering those are the only deer or tracks you'll see in this township all winter I'll still lean towards saying the DSM is too low around here.
Of course to a doe killing meat monger if they can find that much sign thru pre season scouting it must be a good idea to kill them off.
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:30 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Potterco
Yes there's on average 15-20 deer feeding daily in a 30 acre bean/corn field I let stand for them ...just to keep them off the Gamelands so doe killers can't get them. But considering those are the only deer or tracks you'll see in this township all winter I'll still lean towards saying the DSM is too low around here.
Of course to a doe killing meat monger if they can find that much sign thru pre season scouting it must be a good idea to kill them off.
I'm sure there just standing there daily during hunting season so you could easily kill them at will.Like 99.99% of your posts.I ain't buying it.It's illogical and just plain stupid to assume every deer in the twp will stay in a 30 acre field all winter.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:18 AM
  #124  
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Some guys need to get over their mancrush they have on HPA. If HPA bothers you that much it's because you got run out. If you got run out it's because you caused more trouble than you were worth having around. nobody fires up more people on HPA than myself, and I'm still there because I don't cast insults at people.
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:08 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by DougE
I'm sure there just standing there daily during hunting season so you could easily kill them at will.Like 99.99% of your posts.I ain't buying it.It's illogical and just plain stupid to assume every deer in the twp will stay in a 30 acre field all winter.

Well DougE then you must be dumber than dirt to think those brown critters in the field every morning and evening, day after day aren't deer..they do walk out of the field to bed in my woods most days but alot of times they don't bother to leave at all. I do believe "If" I wished to lower myself I could pop one of them with a .22 mag with no more effort than shooting sparrows off the grain bin.......
Little wonder you must do so much scouting to find a doe to kill...you're looking for the wrong type of critter...12 doe in 2 years you say????? hmmmm more like 12 groundhogs maybe as I seriously doubt you're a good enough hunter to kill even 1 measly doe!
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:25 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by moosemike
Some guys need to get over their mancrush they have on HPA. If HPA bothers you that much it's because you got run out. If you got run out it's because you caused more trouble than you were worth having around. nobody fires up more people on HPA than myself, and I'm still there because I don't cast insults at people.

Whose casting insults im pointing out facts 2 years ago he posted the following advice listed below. it was published on line and in the news paper to hunters of the potter co.area the same area he now complains about. Today he feels that taking his boy there will ruin him, He feels he needs to wait till the child is 17 yet he still supports the program. He is quite fortunate he has another option for his family to keep their interest in hunting high. What about all those that don’t have his option did his advice only apply to them? How many kids have we lost in those 2 years but that was fine until HR hit his boy now the sky is falling. He advised others to be patient most have endured it a lot longer than his 2 years. Maybe if he got off the 50 acre food plot sooner he would have realized most in the area were patient. Mike his site tries to paints the rosy picture, his moderators past and present bashed, belittled and insult anyone opposed to HR, and his moderators white wash every negative pgc post by editing them. Your new there mike, in time you will see what we are talking about. So big john follow your own advice and take your boy to potter camp and be patient!!!

Make sure they want to be part of the cycle of life and not just the harvest”
We are just being asked to be patient while a new balance is found.”
“Have some patience. Hunters that endure can look forward to many great years to come. Those that quit, well hey that ball is in your court.”
“I mean being outdoors around here is a true blessing and a little patience and perhaps a tweak in attitude and you may just find hunting more rewarding and satisfying than ever before.”
“Make sure that the urge to fill the tag or bag the limit does not overtake the pace my kids need to enjoy the sport. Long term focus, not short term rewards are the goal of the hunt”

Last edited by bowhunter2117; 03-05-2010 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:38 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Potterco
Well DougE then you must be dumber than dirt to think those brown critters in the field every morning and evening, day after day aren't deer..they do walk out of the field to bed in my woods most days but alot of times they don't bother to leave at all. I do believe "If" I wished to lower myself I could pop one of them with a .22 mag with no more effort than shooting sparrows off the grain bin.......
Little wonder you must do so much scouting to find a doe to kill...you're looking for the wrong type of critter...12 doe in 2 years you say????? hmmmm more like 12 groundhogs maybe as I seriously doubt you're a good enough
hunter to kill even 1 measly doe!

I don't doubt that what your seeing are deer.I just doubt that they're the only deer in the twp or even close it.

I actually usually average about 2-3 groundhogs per year these days.It used to be in the 40-50/year range but I don't hunt them much any more.I have far more opprotunites to kill deer than I do groundhogs.I don't hunt farms where the deer some into fields on a predicatable basis.I hunt the big woods where groundhogs don't exists.
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:56 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by moosemike
Some guys need to get over their mancrush they have on HPA. If HPA bothers you that much it's because you got run out. If you got run out it's because you caused more trouble than you were worth having around. nobody fires up more people on HPA than myself, and I'm still there because I don't cast insults at people.
I can honestly see why these guts are questing RB.He did an absolute 180 degree turn.

I think the reason is alot deeper than just less deer but I'm not going to get into someone else's business on a public forum.
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:12 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by DougE
... I don't hunt farms where the deer some into fields on a predicatable basis.I hunt the big woods where groundhogs don't exists.
guess you don't know what a groundhog looks like either...duh woodchucks live in woods too...you might want to stick to shooting squirrels...you know what they look like don't you...little gray 4 footed critter with big bushy tails...live everywhere even in your "big woods"..BTW I'd like to see your big woods...probably nothing more than a city park...hey buy yourself a bag of peanuts and go sit on your blind (park bench)...right after you offer that candy to the little girls you can toss out the nuts...shouldn't be too long before some big woods critters show up!
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:21 AM
  #130  
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Doug is not that bad of a guy he comes across at times as some alpha hunter but that’s just Doug. Over the years we have had some heated discussions but in the end he has his views and I have mine. Will we ever agree NO! but I do respect him for standing up for what he believes in and mutual respect is shown on both sides when we are discussing deer
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