Pa deer audit shows program critically flawed
02-19-2010, 09:34 AM
#1
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Posts: 2,978
Pa deer audit shows program critically flawed
First, Id like to make a sincere public apology to WMI for saying the audit was a "whitewash". (I said so only after reading the introductory statements)... And also for my previous statements that they would not be objective at all.
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It seems they agree 100% with what most of us knew all along....
1. The rock bottom "basics" of the plan were sound as in the structure and basic goals. Only common sense actually. Noone had ever challenged them anyway.
2. Its been said over and over and over, and in fact is one of the reasons pgc was being sued by usp if i recall correctly, the data on herd health was BADLY insufficient, and found not to be a good indicator of herd health. That was confirmed.
3. The regeneration studies were insufficient and therefore the hr was based on nothing. Gee who didnt see that one coming??
4. The Cac they found to be a joke. I said that since day one.
Gee fellas....What else is there left to the deer program???
Pretty clear WMI, of course, was trying to be as polite as possible, but they still tore pgc a new one. Time for the legislators to take some curative actions or at the very least force pgc to do so themselves. We've just found out our last decade was wasted with a completely flawed management program in place..... Oh yeah, but the basic goals were acceptable. lmao.
Im seeing the generally consensus across the span of a few different boards and with those ive spoken to on the issue, that the audit is a good thing, supporting what many of those who have been seeking change have been saying all along.
--------------------
It seems they agree 100% with what most of us knew all along....
1. The rock bottom "basics" of the plan were sound as in the structure and basic goals. Only common sense actually. Noone had ever challenged them anyway.
2. Its been said over and over and over, and in fact is one of the reasons pgc was being sued by usp if i recall correctly, the data on herd health was BADLY insufficient, and found not to be a good indicator of herd health. That was confirmed.
3. The regeneration studies were insufficient and therefore the hr was based on nothing. Gee who didnt see that one coming??
4. The Cac they found to be a joke. I said that since day one.
Gee fellas....What else is there left to the deer program???
Pretty clear WMI, of course, was trying to be as polite as possible, but they still tore pgc a new one. Time for the legislators to take some curative actions or at the very least force pgc to do so themselves. We've just found out our last decade was wasted with a completely flawed management program in place..... Oh yeah, but the basic goals were acceptable. lmao.
Im seeing the generally consensus across the span of a few different boards and with those ive spoken to on the issue, that the audit is a good thing, supporting what many of those who have been seeking change have been saying all along.
Last edited by Cornelius08; 02-19-2010 at 09:41 AM.
02-19-2010, 09:45 AM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 171
The PGC in their own issued statement gave what amounted to a brush off to the results of the audit. Gee whom didn't see that coming? Doubt what I say...read Roe's own assesment of findings...." ...only one bit of information that we'll need to consider in the over all..." Had the report been glowing in favor of the PGC's plan you can bet the farm roe would've had a news release weeks ago tauting a favorable report.
I mean we hunters have been saying basically the same thing the audit said that the management program was severly flawed and the BOC have been giving us the brush off for years while they blindly forged ahead knowing the program was flawed at best.
No hike in deer numbers no hike in fees!!!!!!!Bring them to their knees!!!!!!
I mean we hunters have been saying basically the same thing the audit said that the management program was severly flawed and the BOC have been giving us the brush off for years while they blindly forged ahead knowing the program was flawed at best.
No hike in deer numbers no hike in fees!!!!!!!Bring them to their knees!!!!!!
02-19-2010, 09:45 AM
#3
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 593
Simply amazing. I watched my hunting area(about 30 sq miles) go from a great place where you would see at least 1 deer every week you hunted there to a place that now has food plots planted by the PGC, tons of cover and clear cuts yet no deer. None, Zero Zilch.
The whole time I repeatedly sent emails to the PGC and talked with the officers patrolling the roads and nothing changed. The officers actually thought I was right and the guys making the decisions needed to come out and take a look.
Now look what happens. Back to the days of the 1970's with a tight doe lottery and more disinterest in hunting by the youth and we can get it back to where it was in 2000.
The whole time I repeatedly sent emails to the PGC and talked with the officers patrolling the roads and nothing changed. The officers actually thought I was right and the guys making the decisions needed to come out and take a look.
Now look what happens. Back to the days of the 1970's with a tight doe lottery and more disinterest in hunting by the youth and we can get it back to where it was in 2000.
02-19-2010, 09:52 AM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 171
Great post WillPa...you can hold as many youth days as you want but youth need to see deer to get their interests perked...they don't need to kill but they need to see deer or they'll go hunt them on their PC with games like Cabelas Big Game
02-19-2010, 10:25 AM
#5
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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"The PGC in their own issued statement gave what amounted to a brush off to the results of the audit. "
They'll point to the general statements like where wmi says pgc basic principals are sound (as if anyone didnt already agree habitat, human conflict etc etc.should be considered) and they'll downplay as much of the critisism as possible, say they will address the issue, do the very minimum that they can to make it look like they acknowledged the suggestions and that'll be the end of it.
Unfortuately, for them, there are many that will be keeping a close eye on the situation.
I also look for sportsmen to call rather loudly for changes based on these very critical assessments.
02-19-2010, 10:50 AM
#6
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The whole time I repeatedly sent emails to the PGC
02-19-2010, 10:54 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
Simply amazing. I watched my hunting area(about 30 sq miles) go from a great place where you would see at least 1 deer every week you hunted there to a place that now has food plots planted by the PGC, tons of cover and clear cuts yet no deer. None, Zero Zilch.
The whole time I repeatedly sent emails to the PGC and talked with the officers patrolling the roads and nothing changed. The officers actually thought I was right and the guys making the decisions needed to come out and take a look.
Now look what happens. Back to the days of the 1970's with a tight doe lottery and more disinterest in hunting by the youth and we can get it back to where it was in 2000.
The whole time I repeatedly sent emails to the PGC and talked with the officers patrolling the roads and nothing changed. The officers actually thought I was right and the guys making the decisions needed to come out and take a look.
Now look what happens. Back to the days of the 1970's with a tight doe lottery and more disinterest in hunting by the youth and we can get it back to where it was in 2000.
No deer in 30 square miles and all kinds of foodplots and clearcuts?OK.
02-19-2010, 11:07 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Morgantown WV USA
Posts: 108
>No deer in 30 square miles and all kinds of foodplots and clearcuts?OK
It's the internet, anything is possible.
I notice a pattern with claims lke this. They never mention exactly where these spots are. Makes calling BS by someone else that lives much harder.
Wv Gino
It's the internet, anything is possible.
I notice a pattern with claims lke this. They never mention exactly where these spots are. Makes calling BS by someone else that lives much harder.
Wv Gino
02-19-2010, 12:04 PM
#9
Spike
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 64
Wow, it's a sad state of affairs to see the lengths some will go to to try and discredit the audit. Give it up guys. The pagc was pretty well vindicated by the results. No smoking guns, no conspiracy revealed, and certainly no critical flaws. Glad to see it's only a few guys though spinning it that way.
02-19-2010, 12:12 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Did you miss the 4 pages of comments by the Deer and Elk Section that disagreed with or questioned the findings of WMI?