Just how do you know I am not happy that H4L 23 got his buck and saw lots of deer? Did I say anything negative about what he did, or did I simply question how it was possible to have so many deer without having crop damage and over browsing. My only goal was to point out that his experience wasn't anywhere close to what the vast majority of hunters will experience on public land and I was right.

And what you always fail to recognize is that any hunter CAN do what H4L23 did or what DougE does or what Livbucks does or Blkpowder or BWJ or countless others on here. The deer are out there. Agreeably less than we had before and not every hunter is going to harvest one every year and it's never been that way. All we are entitled to is the opportunity for the pursuit. How we individually handle that opportunity is up to us. If you gave up even a fraction of the time you spend rationalizing why other guys success is unfair and spent that time trying to improve your situation, maybe youd have better results.

When it comes to hunting, you get back what you put into it. Put negative efforts in and you'll get negative results. Perhaps if you started thinking about how you can instead of why you can't, the results would be different.

I never said other hunters success was unfair. You just keep making things up in order to start an argument.

What negative efforts are you talking about? I've done a lot of positive things that have produced very little results ,but that doesn't stop me from doing even more. I'm still planting chestnut trees even though I probably won't live long enough to see them bear nuts. You see, unlike with many trophy hunters ,these discussions are not about me , they are about the quality of hunting for all hunters , not just those few who view hunting as a competitive sport and success is measured by the size of the rack .they harvest.

Pgc should be managing responsibly. They are getting a healthy wad of cash each and every year to do that and they arent. Doesnt matter if everyone on this board kills a deer or never does. Pgcs attitude towards hunters sucks, the management stinks, and something needs done. Those issues dont magically go away if a couple of these guys suddenly become more successful or if they quit complaining.

Well gee, what exactly were you saying when you claimed that DougE "takes advantage" of low hunting pressure in 2G and that hunting public land in 2G is like hunting a private preserve?

What exactly were you saying when you claimed that I "buy" my deer?

What exactly were you saying when you berated Jim for having his own personal deer farm?

What exactly do you mean when you say something suggesting that a guy wouldn't have seen so many deer if everyone hunted his spot?

The plain fact is that you go on the attack virtually every time a PA hunter talks on here of seeing good deer numbers where you often make unfounded "yeah but" allegations as to why he has his success. It's gotten very old.

Btb, this isnt a "success" thread. If someone wants to point out seeing 30-40 deer in a thread that was started about debating the deer program, then its only common sense its gonna be evaluated closely.

None of that means those hunters had an unfair advantage. It just means they happen to be in an area where can benefit from the conditions that exist in that area. But it is also true no matter how much effort hunters may put forth the sustainable harvest is determined by the number of deer that are recruited and not by how hard we hunt.

Blue....you see...success isn't measured by the size of the rack...it's measured by the age of that deer and the effort that was put in hunting.

Based on what you're suggesting, there's no success in harvesting a matriarch doe. I guess I didn't have a "successful" year by blues standards since I didn't have any antlers with which to measure my success.

I think blue more than made it clear that those werent HIS standards.:s4:

That is just pure unadulterated QDMA propaganda. No QDMA member has an 8 year old doe mounted with a tag that says I killed the matriarch doe and they don't have a basket racked 6 pt.,9 year old buck mounted with a tag that says this buck is a trophy because it is 9 years old.