bluebird2

So when are you or Doug going to tell us how many more deer hunters could harvest on a sustainable basis , if they followed you advice to move more and hunt smarter and harder? Could it be that you realize you are wrong ,but simply won't admit it? Could hunters have harvest over 200K buck like they did in 2000 and 2001? Could they have harvested over 300K antlerless without reducing the herd by well over 10%. Remember the PGC said that the 2001 harvest of 284K , reduced the herd by 8%.

DougE

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.One of the reasons hunters used to see so many deer is because there were so many hunters in the woods bumping them all over the place.Pressure increases a hunters success when there are other hunters out there.After the pressure subsides,the hunting get's tougher because the deer hole up in heavy cover.One thing we have around here that you most likely don't have to deal with is bear season the week prior to deer season.We have way more bear hunters and groups of 20+ hunters drive these areas solid for 3 strait days.I've been hunting bear there and got caught in the middle of several groups driving different hollows at the same time.Until you've had to seal with huge groups of bear hunters,you have no idea what you're talking about. The pressure during deer season is lower but it still gets pounded in many places.It just so happens,those are the last places I'd even consider hunting.Belive me,these deer don't just walk around all day without a care in the world.They lay in laurel patches and cleacuts all day unless pushed out.Since the pressure in deer seson is much lower,especially after the first day,no one moves the deer but they rarely get up and move on their own.

It is funny that you constantly complain about how poor the deer hunting is in 2G and then turn around and say it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

DougE

So once again,you're stating that there should be enough deer so that the guys who want an easy hunt should be able to kill a deer with no problem.Sorry but the hunting should be at least somewhat of a challenge.

livbucks

I find that many people who have only hunted bucks during the first day of rifle season, often are under the assumption that they trot around the woods all day every day as a usual behavior.

NY Bowhunter

lol I've witnessed the same thing. At the end of opening day they are actually amazed they "didn't get anything"

Cornelius08

...Oh brother...

Now the herd isnt down, its the hunters. Always interesting to see which "straw" will be grasped for next. lmao.

Unfortunately the pgc annual reports say youre dead wrong, the herd IS way down. And that being the case, would account for alot if not all of the decreased sightings.

Second, how on earth do all the other states manage, which have FAR fewer hunters than we? Wonder those guys ever see a deer by that logic! lol. Pa hunters regularly go to other states with far fewer hunters and see plenty of deer. And have much higher satisfaction than Pa.

Glad Im a bowhunter. Otherwise according to some, id never kill a deer unless 20 other guys who smoke, didnt shower and couldnt sit still ran me one the first day of rifle. lmao. Was this another prediction of Dr. Alt?

DougE

Who said anything about the herd not being down.It's a fact that on key days when there's alot of hunters in the woods,the deer are up on their feet moving more and people see more deer.The vast majority of the deer I kill with a rifle are shot between noon and 2:00 pm and the reason is simple.That's when the most people are on their feet moving,forcing the deer to move as well.Once the deer sense that pressure,they hunker down and stay put unless forced to move.Once that happens,it makes the hunting very tough after the first day because no one is moving the deer.Bear season is also a big factor around here.

No one is grasping for any straws.I don't complain about not seeing deer.I see them in areas where supposedly the herd is decimated.there's an area not far from my house that's owned by Seneca resource corp.It's open to the public,dmap'd and has very easy access.It get's pounded in bear season and recieves moderate pressure during deer season.Most people complain about the lack of deer.Funny thing is,I've yet to hunt that in rifle season without seeing quite a few deer.We do small slow drives with one or two guys and see deer on almost every drive.Most guys sit on pipelines or in the sections of open woods where they can see the farthest.We push out the thick laurel patches and thick clearcuts and move deer every time.On the last day I hunted this spot by myself.It was cold and too crunchy to walk so the hunting was tough.I set up on a bench that was directly below a thick laurel patch that we always push deer out of.I didn't see a single deer by 10:00am.At that time,4 guys decided to push the laurel out diretly away from where I was sitting.It ticked me off at first but I figured I HAD A GOOD CHANCE OF seeing some skirt out behind these guys.Sure enough,about 5 minutes into the drive,a single deer came right out to me,followed by 3 more.The first one was small so I let it go.I planned on shooting one of the others but they satyed about 15 yards up the hill too far to get a good shot.All 4 of those deer stayed along the edge of that laurel and went right back in behind the drivers.I talked with those guys about two hours later and they never saw a deer.Those guys walked into the laurel with the wind at their faces and winded their standers that were on the opposite side.This past Sept,I got 85 trail cam pictures in one week on that exact same bench yet hunters say there's no deer there.

Cornelius08

I wouldnt say deer are most killed during those times here. From experience Id say from daylight till 9 would be when huge majority are taken. Not sure if thats because of hunter habitat or what. But I know that the time Id wanna be on stand if it had to be limited to a particular few hour period of the day.

Doesnt necessarily take hunter movement to move deer, although hunters going to stand predaylight do move deer, Shifting winds and ever changing scent streams move deer. Sitting hunters movements being caught move deer. Hunters shooting at deer move deer.

Another big thing, after the first hours of the first morning, around here its hard to go out without seeing a drive put on at some time. Most places around here, you cannot sit any of the higher participation days... First day, second day, saturdays.. Without seeing a drive or hearing several going on throughout the day in the distance and or on the radios. Not uncommon to see areas of public or even heavily used nonposted private land being driven multiple times in a day.

NY Bowhunter

I'm confused. Are we saying pressuring deer is good for deer hunting?

Lanse couche couche

Cornie you need to make up your mind. One minute you are saying that PA is a unique situation and cannot be compared/contrasted with other states, but then you turn around and want to talk about how many deer people see in other states and hunter satisfaction compared to other states. I would imagine that someone who is used to hunting fairly well pressured public ground in PA is going to see more deer if they end up hunting thru an outfitter in Pike County, Illinois or they get set up with a private land hunting trip with some buddy that has a honey hole in Indiana. Based on what I have seen and heard from some folks in PA i am pretty confident that they could set me up with a honey hole hunt in PA that would result in seeing more deer than if i was out on any of the local public hunting areas here in Ohio.