DougE

Alot of it also has to do with what one's perception of good hunting really is.I've lived and hunted through times when we didn't see tons of deer and I've hunted through many years in certain areas where killing a deer was easy and practically expected every time I went.I used to go back and Hunt Wyoming county every year a time or two each season.I never did any preseason scouting,just pretty much hunted the same areas the way I always had in the past.Never one time throughout the nineties did I ever make the trip back home and not come back without a deer.It was easy.When I FIRST MOVED TO cLEARFIELD COUNTY IN 1991,I got permission to hunt a farm down the road.The farmer told me if you just find a spot and sit anywhere the first day of doe season,you'll get one.He wasn't kidding either.It was that easy.I hunt strictly weekends,other than one or two afternoons a season and the firsy day of deer season.I haven't taken more than one vacation day to hunt deer in about 15 years.I don't see dozens of deer each day.Some days I don't see any but most days,during rifle season,I get at least an opportunity,if I decide to take it.I know there's deer wherever I'm hunting,otherwise I wouldn't hunt there.There was a time when it was cool to see der all day long in good numbers but that isn't important to me.I actually like the added challenge of hunting big woods deer that are not great in numbers.It's more satisfying to kill one now,but that's just my perspective.I can still go back home and have an easy hunt on private land in Wyoming county but it's actually anti-climatic so I rarely ever do.When I decide to,it's just to get an opportunity to spend some time with old friends and family.Today,I'd classify the hunting on public land in 2G is slightly better(number of deer seen)than it was when I started hunting in Wyoming county on private land in 1980.

I think the hunting is as good today as it every was as far as I'm concerned.There are less deer,no doubt about it.There's also no doubt about the average size of the bucks being better.I have thousands and thousands of acres of public land just a few minutes from my house.There is pressure in areas but it's easy to avoid and that includes turkey season as well.The opportunities today are incredible.I kill alot of deer every year but I rarely kill multiple deer on the same day.I killed my first deer of the year just after first light on the first day of archery season this year and killed my last as I was walking out of the woods on the last evening of flintlock season.Three months worth of deer hunting was unheard of in 1980.I live and hunt where supposedly the worst hunting is to be found in the state.Once again,to many it may be lousy but I love every minute of it.I simply can't see how it can be classified as poor.In the last three years,strictly rifle hunting on public land in 2G,I could have pulled the trigger at least once,every day I hunted.This past season,I didn't see one racked buck during rifle season.The year before,I could have killed a legal buck every time I went.

DougE

Jeff,in the past,I've seen you post that if someone is seeing more than a few deer a day,that's too many.How many deer a day do you think a guy should see?

NY Bowhunter

Not sure where I fit in this discussion. I havent' missed a hunt in ... as long as I can remember (aside from EXTREME weather). From opening day to they tell me I can no longer be in the woods with a weapon I'm in the woods. A good chunk of it on all day sits. I bust my rump in the off season both scouting and aquiring new land.

That being said, the deer numbers here in NY are WAY down. Not from lack of adapting or effort on my part. Simply put, they aren't around like they used to be. I believe it has to do with the herd slaughtering tags the NYS DEC started handing out like popcorn a few years ago. So be it IMO. I like it hard.

We have become an instant gratification society and I think it carries over to hunting. Not singling out anyone here or really trying to stereotype. I just think there are a lot of hunters that want to go out on opening day and expect it to be handed to them. Whack their deer or two on opening weekend and call it a season. Just not the case anymore. I think it gets more aggrevating for a lot of people just because the way it is today with time constraints, priorities, money, etc.... Almost like they are pressured to get it done quicker and with less deer that will walk in front of them, it aint going to happen.

I'm in a different situation that allows me to spend the time that I need to be successfull (or to not be successfull). Either way, personally thats how I like it. May sound crazy, but I want it to be hard. I want it to be VERY hard. I want to have to work harder than the next guy to get it done. More rewarding for me. Seriously what fun would it be to hop in a stand on opening day and whack a 125" buck? Then what?

Anyway... just my .02.

Cornelius08

I agree NY. That could be said of hunters or anyone anywhere in the country in regards to many things....And that only goes so far...

But when the situation is as extreme as it is and has been in Pa, its time to look past the excuse making and point the finger where it belongs. Straight at those who get 75-80 million a year to manage our game.

More cash than any other management agency Im aware of....With the absolute worst deer management Im aware of. Yes, we are talking extremes.

DougE

I agree with everything you stated.Again,it's all about perspective.I hunted all day on the last day of flintlock season.I started off trying to sit all morning but I couldn't sit more than 2 hours without turning numb.The snow was about 16 inches deep so walking was tough as well.I hunted the entire day without leaving the woods once.I also didn't see a single solitary deer.I saw tracks here and there and mnay of them were fresh.A the end of the day,I hiked back to a spot that I'd been meaning to hunt for the past few years.There were alot of tracks SO i SAT THERE FOR ALMOST TWO HOURS WITHOUT SEEING ANYTHING.About 5 minutes before shooting hours were over,I got up to call it a season.I hadn't made it 50 yards when two deer came running past me.I bleated at them to stop and made a nice 50 yard offhand shot with a flintlock.That was probably the best and most satisfying hunt I had all year despite only seeing 2 deer all day long.I didn't get that deer back to my truck until about 7:30 pm but it was worth it.

Lanse couche couche

Dunno about instant gratification, but I don't know of any situations where the majority of deer hunters in any given situation didn't get upset when management strategies were introduced that resulted in decreased liklihood of bagging a deer, in particular nice bucks. Hunters in general are not too patient with short-term pain for long-term gain. That is especially true for deer hunters, many of whom never quite grasp the concept that modern deer management has many other responsibilities and goals beyond maintaining deer populations at levels that will make all of them happy.

Cornelius08

When the goals of management become catering to audubon & like types seeking unnatural and excessive biodiversity and basically laying waste to our deer herd, which includes gross overharvest and other obtuse things like introduction of birth control....all for more "trillium" and "hobblebush"...and hunter dissent is higher than anywhere else in the nation... Its time to re-examine our management agency priorities.

Id hardly refer to it as "modern management". Especially considering it not going on anywhere other than here. Its extreme. And the appropriate term would be mismanagement.

Lanse couche couche

Well, that's one perspective. But then again there are other folks who might view it as mismanagement if everything gets centered around seeking universal satisfaction ratings from a particulalry vocal group of disgruntled deer hunters whose vision for public lands differ from many.....

germain

Bottom line is if it aint broke don't fix it.Well the system is broke and it needs fixin so people are going to complain.Changes are needed and if nobody does anything and just sits around playing with their jack in the box nothing is gonna change.It's unAmerican not to take action when things aren't right.

livbucks

I agree BTB. We have had to adjust more to decreased hunting pressure than lower deer numbers. The deer must be hunted, as they are not being pushed because there are very few hunters in the woods. If we want a deer in 2F, we must go find them, because they simply lay all day from no hunting pressure. I know that some people base their entire strategy on pushed deer. Pushed by someone else, that is.