pats102862

I hear some of these horror stories also. I never heard of this nonsense back in the 70s early 80s when I used to only see about 6-10 deer a season. This is what I don't understand, I am seeing about the same amount of deer now in a season as I did in the 70s. I don't recall a lot of screaming bloody murder because guys are only seeing a deer or two a day, at least not in my area. I beleive people got spoiled and took high deer numbers for granted and now are having a hard time adjusting.

Cornelius08

I think youre mistaken doug. I dont think we ever will, but we most likely could have 1.5 mil preseason deer again if we wanted to. All a matter of how those deer were dispersed across the state. While the areas that are the worst might not be able to hold alot more deer than currently, plenty of other areas could. If laid out in the ideal manner & micromanaged, I have no doubt 1.5 million deer could be had with no unacceptable effects to the habitat.

Not saying i want 1.6 mil. Or that we should necessarily have. But it wouldnt be impossible is all im saying. There are no "reams" that say otherwise either. Though Im sure that the states that have and have had WAY higher deer densities than we do currently have a ream or two available.

livbucks

In the glaciated regions of the northern tier, you couldn't grow an oak tree even if you popped an acorn up your booboo and incubated it.
I don't think that deer can hurt the habitat in pole timber, but is it fair and humane to try to range too many deer in that scenario to begin with? That is not the best thing as far as herd health. When you carry too many deer in that condition, they will gather in heavy concentrations in wintering areas and malnutrition and disease from close contact will emerge. That is not a very good life for a deer IMO.

bluebird2

Would you please identify the disease that inflicted our deer when we had 1.3M deer in just 30 counties in the 1930's? What disease inflicted our herd when we had 40 DPSM in the NC counties during the 70s?
What disease inflicted our deer when we had 1.6m PS deer in 2001?

Just what is this mysterious deer that inflicts our deer . IMHO it is called antlerless deer harvests which is caused by the antlerless deer allocations. Do you have a better more informed answer?

pats102862

Back when we had 1.6m deer, me and a friend stumbled upon a southeren exposure bedding area during the off season. There were so much deer droppings it was hard to walk through with out stepping in fresh droppings. You could see where the deer actually bedded in this stuff. I don't know about any diseases, but how can having so many deer concentrated in one area that they lay in their own crap be a healthy environment.

Cornelius08

Im sure the deer had plenty of other bedding options other than in their own filth. If they did so it was incidental and just not very picky deer i guess. lol.

Ive never seen such a thing, and back in the late 90's we had a heckuva lot of deer here.

pats102862

It was on top of a ridge. We jumped them by mistake, they took off down the winter side of the mountian. i counted 26 as they ran past and my friend who owns the place was in front of me seen a bunch before I did. Anyway they don't have that problem any more, they are lucky to see one droping. I have a mom and twins who like to bed down where i have a stand. I never knew three little deer could make so much mess. They always come back and plop down in and around it.

Cornelius08

Oh ive seen a pellet or three in deer beds and in and around areas where they spend much time. Id not call it a health threat. It just is the way it is, they have no toilet. lol

Im thinking one of my favorite hunting spots where I hafta walk through a narrow fenced lane area of a cattle pasture to get to my spot on the far side of the property, through over ankle deep mixture of wet cow dung & urine for about 75 yards is abit nasty though.

Never have deer pick up my scent when crossing my trail in though, on the bright side. lol.

livbucks

There are diseases that inflict deer when they are gathered in high concentrations.
Malnutrition is a concern as well.
I remember when eating a deer from the northern tier was less than enjoyable. Simply because they damn near ate rocks and tree bark to survive.
In the last several years we have noticed that the deer are full of ribbons of fat and have an improved palatability.

bluebird2

The PGC has been making the same claim for many years, but the funny thing is we have never had an outbreak of disease that was the result of high DD. Also, even in Valley Forge with a DD of over 200 DPSM, the herd has not suffered from a disease that is transferred from deer to deer.So the threat of disease seems to be a red herring the PGC tries to use to justify HR just like they claimed our buck age structure was a problem in order to justify ARs,when in fact ARs were implemented to get more rapid HR.