Interesting perspective on PA from our neighbors.....
 

Looks like some folks like the example PA has set. Dont agree with some of it but it is interesting to see how others look at PA's deer management program.......

:popcorn:
http://www.thedailystar.com/localsports/local_story_022041529.html

Let the little bucks go so they can grow


In a few weeks, the Department of Environmental Conservation will release the numbers on the deer harvest for the past hunting season.

Over the years, the DEC has been proud of the record number of deer taken as opposed to the number of record deer taken. Times have changed. It's no longer quantity; it's quality.

When the harvest figures are released, the number of deer shot this past season will be down. Why? The reason is simple. The number of hunters is down. The dollars that deer season generates to the upstate communities are down. Yet, I feel the number of deer wandering our hills and meadows is up.

A few years ago, Pennsylvania started a three-point antler restriction. Hunters were furious. Gary Alt, who implemented the program, was nearly crucified for even suggesting such a ludicrous plan and was eventually driven out. Hunters couldn't understand why they couldn't shoot any buck they wanted.

Pennsylvania stuck with Alt's plan and today, its deer hunting is outstanding. I talked to some hunters from our neighboring state and they raved about the quality of the deer they see in the woods. The antler restriction worked. Today, hunters are flocking to Pennsylvania to hunt quality deer while they are leaving New York in droves.

I've told hunters for many years that they have to pass up the little bucks. Let them grow. Usually, the response has been, "Well if I don't shoot them, someone else will." That mindframe has to change, and it has with many deer hunters.

A similar situation happened in Colorado. A four- or five-point antler restriction was placed on elk and it worked. Residents complained in the beginning, but today, they realize the difference and they love it. They see more and better elk than they ever did before.

New York needs some changes. Instead of managing wildlife for the insurance companies, they have to manage deer for the hunter. It goes back to the old saying, "If you build it, they will come." If we have better deer hunting, the hunters will come back.

We need a three-point antler restriction. We have to let the little bucks grow up. The average deer shot in New York is 1 1/2 years old. In Ohio, the average buck harvested is 4 1/2. That's why hunters go there. They have big bucks, as does Illinois, Iowa, etc.

Every state except New York is trying to grow big-antlered deer. They know that hunters will come and they will spend big dollars, boosting their economy. It's that simple. Why did hunters used to go to the Adirondacks to hunt? Big bucks. Now the deer are gone and so are the hunters.

If today's hunters were surveyed, the majority of them would favor an antler restriction. Sure there are some who will resist the idea, but within three years, they'll change their minds.

I think we have to call and write the DEC. Point out to it that we want deer hunting to improve in New York. It's good for everyone. It's good for the economy as well.

I wouldn't feel so bad spending a hundred dollars for my licenses if the hunting was better. It's time we took a stand. Let me know what you think and pass the word on to the DEC.

Rick Brockway writes a weekly outdoors column for The Daily Star. E-mail him at [email protected].

Interesting read. But, it's New York we're talking about here. Their hunting isn't what I'd call "great" by any stretch of the imagination.

Interesting. Funny thing about it is, non-resident license sales in Pa are way down. All of my friends that came to Pa from NY no longer bother.

This article is bogus, and I think Rick didn't bother to check out the facts before he wrote. Since NY is toying around with antler restrictions, almost seems like Rick is trying indoctrinate his readership much like we were indoctrinated by Alt and the traveling road show.:rolleye0011:

I hate to say it, but I don't think NY hunters are that dumb.:s5:

When someone claims we need AR and then lists a state without them as the reason why, I pretty much dismiss their arguement.

This site can really suck sometimes, I type a post on this subject and when I sumit, its says you have to log in again. I 'am not going to waste my time retyping it. :bash:

BT. you must be drinking to much cool aide. The author doesnt have a clue what he is talking about!! About 60% of all bucks harvested in Ohio each and every year are 1.5 years of age. Pike

"its deer hunting is outstanding"

Lol, thanks btb, i needed a good laught this morning. Some arent above saying absolutely anything when pushing an agenda, as apparently the author is in that quote. Im sure he realizes the huge majority of New York hunters who dont hunt Pa, wouldnt know if that were true or not.

As for New York not being a great hunting state, may or may not be true. Considering they killed nearly as many buck the last couple of years with hundreds of thousands less hunter than we did, what does that say about Pa?...

Thats a great point Cornelius!! The same is true for OH.
they have 450,000 less deer hunters but their ACTUAL REPORTED BUCK HARVEST is only about 50,000 bucks less per year than our ESTIMATED YEARLY BUCK HARVEST. Pike

Jeff, I said right out that I disagreed with some of it. The point was that it's interesting to note that, from the ouside, apparently PA is still looked at as a pretty good place to hunt deer.


Corn, I agree that he is obviously behind the concept bringing AR into New York. As I said in my original post, I disagree with some things in the article. The fact remains however that the effects of AR are apparently getting noticed outside the state. Thats all I was trying to point out.

Id agree btb, that bringing ar in is the goal of the writer. I dont even necessarily disagree with his desire to do so, it may be embraced there if it was. (but thats their decision to make and i aint in it! lol) But as you know i support ar here.

But I believe saying our hunting here is so great is really donning the rose colored glasses. lol. I think its pretty clear the majority dont support it, but even fewer yet, of those that do, would say its "great" as opposed to "ok" "fair" or even "good". To insinuate most in Pa think the hunting is "great" is absolutely laughable.

While most i believe, dont have a problem with ar in Pa, the hunting in the opinion of most is FAR from great. The fact its because of hr doesnt change the fact the individuals statement was completely unbased. For this individual to out-right lie is a dis-service to the hunters of Pa who are currently embroiled in these deer wars.

That depends on what your goal is. If you just want to fill the freezer as quick as possibile than I would say its not that great. If your goal is to bag a real nice buck, your chances are alot better than years past. In the 36years I was hunting I never seen a 150 class buck dead in the back of a pickup taken localy untill after ARs. the last several years I know of at least one person who took a buck in the 120-150 range. I'am not going to say they never existed before AR because they did. All I'am saying is I never seen deer this size range taken around here before AR. If they were they were very very few and far in between.

I've had the same trouble at times because I open the thread in a new window, and haven't checked the "remember me" box when I logged in. Try checking that box, it might help.

I'am going to give it a try right now, thanks

The remember me box doesnt help.

the best way I've found to combat the problem is to right click on the content of your post and click copy. Then if you get that message saying you're not logged in you can log back in and paste it right back and post.

I've complained on tech section and seen others with the same problem but it just keeps on keepin on. No response to our posts either. Its been going on long enough and enough folks have complained that it's beginning to look like admin doesnt care.........

Probe?Reminds me I should get that camera up my buttocks.
Never got one yet,just can't bring myself to it.:confused0024:

Manyspurs,sorry just now got your PM.I sent ya one back.

I disagree. And that IS my goal as you know, or shoudl know by now. As Ive stated it many times, i pass bucks and dont any legal buck. I also dont shoot does. Having said that, My best bucks by far came PRE-deer plan. SO i aint buyin' it. Have some areas improved...Probably, because they were so bad in the first place, ANY bucks saved would be an improvement. Hr has countered the effects of ar here. I'll still stick with ar. Pgc can stick the hr.:happy0001:

Thats really annoying if you make a long post and get logged out when hitting reply. lol.

When making a first post I always copy it so i can just repasted it.

I understand your personal goals, you stated it many times. But what I seen with my own eyes, not from some data sheet. I am seeing more 100+ bucks in the back of pickups post Ar than in all the years pre AR. But I can only speak for the area were I live. Friends of mine have a 500 acre hunting club. Not much deer sign but come the rifle season they harvested 5 110+ bucks, one might be a 140. Around here if you bagged a 100+ buck, you were the talk of the town back in the 70s-early 80s. therefore I like ARs

OOPS! typo! meant to type problem.

As for the other thing, the night before is WAAAYYY worse than the actual test. Gives a whole new meaning to the term spray painting!

Seriously though, just lost a friend to CC. If you're over 50 :wink:, it could very well save your life. Buck up and go do it! We were just kinda starting to like ya around here!

Thanks BT I just gotta make myself do it.

Life sure was simple before 50.:s1: