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What PA needs ....................

Old 01-05-2010, 02:33 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by bluebird2
It is perfectly obvious that the DCNR is attempting to manage those areas for less deer. It is also perfectly obvious that DMAP tags would have no impact if the entire herd had not been reduced. The harvest rate in DMAP areas has been less than 2 DPSM of DMAP land over the past 3 years. That rate of harvest would have been less than recruitment so the herd would have increased.



You just made that up. I have never made that claim!! You really are getting desperate.

I didn't make that up.In fact it's one of the few things I've agreed with you about.It takes a smaller harvest to maintain or reduce a smaller herd.It's simple common sense.If the PGC cut out all doe hunting in 2G,DCNR would simply expand and increase dmap.Why?Because they're managing the state forests for a much lower dd than the SGL's.I don't see how anyone could deny that.
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:52 PM
  #172  
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If the PGC cut out all doe hunting in 2G,DCNR would simply expand and increase dmap.Why?Because they're managing the state forests for a much lower dd than the SGL's.I don't see how anyone could deny that.
Wrong again. the DCNR can only increase DMAP tags with the approval of the PGC. If the PGC stopped doe hunting in 2g there would be no reason to allow DCNR to have their own doe season.

Did the FLIR survey support your claim that SFL is managed at a much lower DDs than SFL?
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:17 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Cornelius08
"You obviously have little to no experience hunting the game lands of the northern tier."

No i dont doug. But I have seen pgcs stats concerning the area, the dmap info from dcnr such as the info on the link i posted, the flyover results, and aside from those, I wouldnt imagine the gamelands up there would hold higher deer densities than other areas of the state where I have hunted, and the densities on those i have hunted have not been high by any stretch of the imagination, and all indications show that the areas spoken of are lower yet given that area of the state has the lowest overall dd.
What stats have you read about the dd on SGL's 93,244,90,77?None because like the vast majority,there are none.I live a few miles from SGL's 77 and 93,both of which are heavily hunted and both of which are in 2G.Fortunately,we have an excellent land management team in this area and some excellent sportsmen's groups that donate both time and money to improve the habitat.The habitat on these game lands is excellent and the deer numbers are high.I didn't have a 2G tag the last two years so I didn't hunt them during deer season although I do hunt turkeys and spend a fair amount of time on them.Three of my buddies that I lift with all hunt SGL 93.They all killed deer and they all saw at least 20 deer on the first day and both saturdays.In fact,the one guy can only walk a short distance because he lost most of his lung capacity last year when a doctor screwed up duringa simple rotator cuff surgery.The poor guy is only 48 years old and has to carry oxygen in the woods with him.He saw over 20 deer both days he hunted and he hunted within 200 yards of a deer pit,behind the PGC maintenace buildings.The one guy only hunted the first day and saw thirty by 11:00 am.I just met a guy that moved down from Ontario.He contacted me from HPA and stopped in my office one day to show me a new flintlock he bought and to ask me where to hunt.He borrowed a rifle and hunted the first saturday and last day of deer season on SGL 77.The first saturday he saw 21 deer and passed a couple of bucks.the last day he saw 19 and killed a 15 inch 8 point.The guy saw 40 deer in two days on public land that he never stepped foot on and killed a buck.That's more deer than he would have seen in an entire season in Canada.My office sits within 100 yards of SGL 77 on the 2E side.It's a pretty small piece of woods and it's bordered by I80 and the boro of Dubois.On the first friday and saturday my buddy,his son and nephew killed 3 bucks on this SGL.there is no shortage of deer on the state game lands around here.that's not the same story with the state forests.The habitat is pitiful and you'll only find decent deer numbers in certain areas and the deer only use them when there's food there,which changes constantly.We are lucky though because we have huge areas of timber owned property open to the publci and dmap'd.These areas are managed for timber but they do huge scale clearcutting which overwhelms the deer.It draws them in in high numbers but after about 5 years,the hunting gets tough because the deer never leave the clearcuts and it's almost impossible to get at them or get them out.
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:35 PM
  #174  
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here is the link to the FLIR Study results.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/FORESTRY/deer/D13.aspx

Please note that the DD on SGLs 14 was lower than on the Elk SFL, by a significant margin.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:37 PM
  #175  
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So are these the facts or are the ones you say are lies the facts?
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:41 PM
  #176  
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Please provide a translation since what you posted made absolutely no sense.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:52 PM
  #177  
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So are these the facts or are the ones you say are lies the facts?
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:02 PM
  #178  
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are the ones you say are lies the facts?
Which are the ones that I say are lies? I have no idea what you are talking about!! try an be a little more speci

fic!!
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:34 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by bawanajim
So are these the facts or are the ones you say are lies the facts?
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Maybe this guy can get em for ya Jim!



Just the facts! Ma'am
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:41 AM
  #180  
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Is that one of the famous biologists you found that support the Pa DMP? If so,what did he have to say in support of the plan?

I looked for comments supporting the current plan and found most supported managing the herd based on the carrying capacity of the habitat with a 1:2 B/D ratio ,which is what the old plan was based on.
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