glew22

I would probably say I disagree simply because you said "best indicator." I would say it is an indicator, as far as being the best I'm not going to make that leap. To answer your next question I'm not sure which factor would be the "best indicator." I would use a combination of indicators (age, date of antler casting, habitat condition, deer density, buck to doe ratio, etc.). I tend to shy away from using one factor and one factor only.

bluebird2

How is the age of a deer and indicator of stress? What age would be an indicator of stress?

How would the PGC collect enough data on antler casting to use it as an indicator of stress? When does a healthy buck that is not stressed cast his antlers? How would you account for other factors that that may influence antler casting?

What B/D ratio produces the least stress? How would you attain that ratio statewide? Does reduced testosterone levels in 1.5 buck indicate increased or decreased stress levels?

How much fat should an unstressed buck have compared to a stressed buck and how would you measure it?



What level of significance would you assign to each factor?

glew22

[quote]Age could be an indicator of stess when combined with other characteristics (ex: antler growth, body condition, etc). Of course no specific age would automatically be an indicator of stress.

I doubt they could. I said "I" would use this as an indicator, not the pgc.
You have to account for some individual variation here. However, they will typically shed around the last week of jan or first week of feb, in my experience. Interestingly, individual bucks have been known to shed their antlers on the same day, or very close to the same day in successive years. Therefore, when you see a wide gap between the dates of shedding for an individual buck one year to the next, it is either the result of stress, or the factor listed below.
The only other documented factor that can cause a buck to shed his antlers early that I am aware of is a widespread mast failure, in an area dependent upon mast.
It's not fair to isolate one factor and ask this question, even if I gave an answer it could be misleading. I believe the cumulative affect of stress will be less in areas with a low deer density, balanced b/d ratio, and balanced buck age structure, than in a herd with too many deer, skewed sex ratio, and unbalanced buck age structure. As far as pulling out one factor and assigning it to a least/most scale, I think that would be misleading.
As you've indicated our b/d ratio isn't all that bad, and never really has been.
I'm not sure whether or not this has been shown scientifically. If I had to hypothesize, I would say decrease.
Ummm, more? Hah good question, not totally sure, do you have any ideas?


If we're talking about the factors that cause stress I would say hands down deer density. If we're talking about factors that tell us whether or not a deer is stressed I would say probably a combination of the date of antler casting (if you know when he shed them years prior), and overall physical condition.

bluebird2

Based on your answers , it appears there are too many variables, with no established criteria , that would require excessive manpower to collect data, that it makes using the effects of stress an impractical criteria for managing the statewide herd.

glew22

I agree, I never once suggested it should be the basis for statewide deer management.

bluebird2

[QUOTE]I agree, I never once suggested it should be the basis for statewide deer management.[QUOTE]


Then I guess we agree that it is a not an issue for the majority of the state and is only a concern in areas with very limited or no hunting and QDMA leases.

Cornelius08

While I personally agree with many qdm views such as teaching interested land owners about land improvements, passing younger bucks, etc. I do not support the organization itself. It has taken a very unpopular stance with the statewide pa deer management plan, and one that i can not overlook.

Another problem i have with qdm in general is that it equates to more leasing and more posting and off limits lands. I know that not preached as "mandatory" but thats usually the net result.

glew22

QDMA also supports habitat development on public lands through the adopt-a-food plot program.

bluebird2

I believe everyone supports the development of food plots where needed but only 3 WMUs have less than 10% farmland and only 2 WMUs are at least 90% forested and those 2 WMUs were assigned the highest OWDD goals by the PGC in 2003.

ManySpurs

He ain't banned if you have any internet sleuthing capabilties and know what to look for.

And just to clarify my stance on back fat. My contention is that I see much less back fat on bucks that are harvested these last 5 years then I did on bucks that were harvested prior to that.

Stress measuring? HTF do you measure the stress factor on a buck that went into the winter in bad shape and is probably laying dead along a waterway in March as opposed to laying in the back of a pickup truck the following November?