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-   Northeast (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/northeast-26/)
-   -   HOW...do we get the changes we need in PA? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/northeast/312745-how-do-we-get-changes-we-need-pa.html)

glew22 12-23-2009 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by Screamin Steel (Post 3537024)
QDM are the biggest bunch of hypocrites I've ever met...support the PGC deer plan 100%, though almost none of them even hunt public land
Not sure what the "official" QDMA stance is on the current PGC management program. However, last year I wrote the PGC because I thought there was a problem. I belive the herd in 2g was reduced below the carrying capacity. I commended the PGC for discontinuing the combined buck/doe season, it needed to be done. I also suggested that they continue to take action and reduce the antlerless allocation in 2g. Conversely, I suggested they increase antlerless allocations in 5c. There's way too many deer. I feel that down here, anyone who wants a doe license should have the option to do so, without worry they would be sold out.

bluebird2 12-23-2009 04:04 PM
Now to your post. I haven't seen the stat suggesting 6 dpsm but that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. How can that even be suggested? There are so many freakin deer down here it would take several US drone strikes to get it to that point. I conducted a trail camera census in august and photographed 83 deer on a 250 acre property. Only 25 of those were bucks. After running cameras throughout the season, I now have 55 individual bucks, suggesting the census underestimated the population. The problem is that these deer have adapted to suburban living, and fully understand the safest place is close to the houses. I assure you, however, I am doing everything in my power to reduce the herd.
The QDMA of PA named Alt the deer manager of the year award for setting the goals of 5 DPSM for 5B and 6 DPSM for 5C. You are just lucky that the plan has failed to reduce the herd in your area or you would be singing a different tune. Based on the data you provided you have over 200 DPSM while the PGC claims the habitat in your area can only support 6 DPSM. how happy would you be if you had just one buck on your 250 acres instead of 55?

glew22 12-23-2009 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by bluebird2 (Post 3537570)
The QDMA of PA named Alt the deer manager of the year award for setting the goals of 5 DPSM for 5B and 6 DPSM for 5C. You are just lucky that the plan has failed to reduce the herd in your area or you would be singing a different tune. Based on the data you provided you have over 200 DPSM while the PGC claims the habitat in your area can only support 6 DPSM. how happy would you be if you had just one buck on your 250 acres instead of 55?
Not sure about the alt thing but I'll do a fact check and get back to you. The PGC suggesting the habitat can only support 6 dpsm goes back to my point that deer herd need to be managed on a smaller scale. To do their calculations, I'm guessing they included the square mile of concrete and asphalt that borders the area. When you average habitat types across such a large area it's no wonder that you come up with inaccurate figures. The other thing to keep in mind that is often left out of the conversation is supplemental feeding. When Suzie and Billy down the road throw corn out every day so they can see bambi, they're increasing the CC.

bluebird2 12-23-2009 04:36 PM
Not sure about the alt thing but I'll do a fact check and get back to you. The PGC suggesting the habitat can only support 6 dpsm goes back to my point that deer herd need to be managed on a smaller scale
It has nothing to do with managing the herd on a smaller scale. The habitat in all of 5C and 5B can support over 100 DPSM. WMU 2g can support more than 30 DPSM yet it is being managed at 8 or 9 DPSM ,even though the goal for 2G in 2003 was 15 DPSM.

Pahick 12-23-2009 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by glew22 (Post 3537557)
We're not talking about total forest acreage. We're talking about the regeneration present within mature stands of timber. Almost every piece of public land I've stepped foot in noth and central PA (more than you would think), there has been almost NO regeneration whatsoever.

Im sorry, but reading back over your posts its really hard for me to believe you would understand what "mature stands of timber" or "regeneration" are after seeing you post

Originally Posted by glew22
I'm not a forester, and am not familiar with the saw/pole timber terms you used
Without understanding the different stages of growth, how can you come to any conclusion of benefit, or lack of, toward wildlife?

bluebird2 12-23-2009 05:33 PM
Anyone that admits he is not familiar with the various stages of forest development doesn't know enough to comment on any of the various effects of the current DMP.
However, if he is open minded and willing to learn I will do everything i can to bring him up to speed on the isues.

The following quote is the first step in his education.

Deer and trees – “Once the average tree is about 10 years old, its lowest
branches are too high above the ground for a deer to reach; therefore, it
no longer produces food for a whitetail. If that tree is destined to become
merchantable timber, it might be as long as 90 years before it is cut.
Also, during those 90 years, foliage in the upper story of the tree shades
the forest beneath, so that other vegetation is unable to grow there. As
far as deer food is concerned, the tree is a wildlife desert for 90 years out
of 100, unless it happens to be a mast-producing species.” - 5\71 PA
Game News

glew22 12-23-2009 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by bluebird2 (Post 3537594)
It has nothing to do with managing the herd on a smaller scale. The habitat in all of 5C and 5B can support over 100 DPSM. WMU 2g can support more than 30 DPSM yet it is being managed at 8 or 9 DPSM ,even though the goal for 2G in 2003 was 15 DPSM.
It absolutely does. Can exton support 100 dpsm? No, it can't support any. Can the suburbs 4 miles away? No, but they can support a lot more the the several square miles of concrete right next door. Attaching one number for dpsm over such a large, diverse, and fragmented landscape (wmu 5c) is simply not a good idea. Hence, smaller scale.

glew22 12-23-2009 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Pahick (Post 3537605)
Without understanding the different stages of growth, how can you come to any conclusion of benefit, or lack of, toward wildlife?
I have a good working knowledge of the stages of forest succession.

glew22 12-23-2009 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by bluebird2 (Post 3537637)
Anyone that admits he is not familiar with the various stages of forest development doesn't know enough to comment on any of the various effects of the current DMP.
However, if he is open minded and willing to learn I will do everything i can to bring him up to speed on the isues.

The following quote is the first step in his education.
What are you talking about. I never once said I'm not familiar with the the stages of forest succession. I said I am not familiar with the terms you used. I've taken several courses in my education that cover succession. So how about "he" drops his condescending tone, and gets "his" facts straight, then hopefully something productive will come out of the conversation.

ManySpurs 12-23-2009 11:40 PM
We're not talking about total forest acreage. We're talking about the regeneration present within mature stands of timber. Almost every piece of public land I've stepped foot in noth and central PA (more than you would think), there has been almost NO regeneration whatsoever.
Welcome to the thread Gary. I don't know what parts of the NC that you've stepped foot in and not found regeneration. In the areas of the NC that I live and hunt in, I can show you plenty of regeneration. Thing is, it's only happening where there is sun hitting the ground in areas such as pipelines, open logging roads, landings, and areas that have been select cut or clearcut. Get into the woods and away from the sunlight, and there's not a lick of regeneration to be found. You can take that to the bank.:nonono2:

Now that many areas of the Tioga State Forest in 2G will be seeing the many new pipelines thanks to the Marcellus Play, I expect to see plenty more regeneration along the pipelines.


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