Zactly. lol. Estimated averages are what Pgc uses and estimated averages are what we have to work with.

Doug,if you hunt/scout your area practically year round how can you not have an idea how many deer are there?The sign they let tells the story.How big of area are you talking?

Sounds like a good place for a grouse hunt.:biggrin:

Only way to begin solving the problem is to start trying to control the predator populations. That's hard to do in the way of coyotes, but we can do something about bears and bobcats. It's no secret that bears number in the northern tier are out of control, and that is one predator that we can control. Bobats are another predator that is beginning to get out of hand. No shortage of them at all and I believe they take more deer than most folks think. Closing down doe season isn't an option, but there is a way of satisfying everybody that hunts the northwoods.

Phase 1

Leave doe tag allocations as they are, but limit the firearms doe season to the 2 Saturdays. Cut the Ocober inline season to the same 3 days that juniors and seniors are allowed to use rifles.

Phase 2

Increase the archery bear season to one week. Increase the firearms bear season to one week plus the first 3 days of the firearms deer season. PLUS....give the Executive Director of the PGC the power to extend the season instantly in the case of a low bear harvest.

Phase 3

Allow bobcat permitees to harvest 2 cats.

There ya have it. Doe hunters are happy, bear hunters are happy, bobcat hunters are happy, the PGC loses no doe tag allocation revenue, and the herd may possibly have a chance to rebound in areas where predators are having a significant impact on the recruitment rate.:s5:

That is a totally irrational solution since it would take just two days of bad weather to the reduce the doe harvest to next to nothing.

Ah but that's where "give the Executive Director of the PGC the power to extend the season instantly in the case of a low bear harvest" comes in. Just switch the word bear to deer. If they have a poor harvest due to weather, that's good for me but bad for them. Doe hunters still had their 2 days to kill a doe during the firearms deer season. They had their chance during the October seasons as well. That's 5 days to kill a doe with a firearm. Plenty of time. Bit IF the weather played a part in a much lower harvest, the Executive Director would have the power to extend a season somewhere along the line. BUT...the goal with my idea is to allow the herd to come back while keeping everyone happy. Worrying about a low weather realated harvest is the least of concern if the PGC was really interested in fixing what's wrong.

But the PGC has the bear harvest data the day after bear season closes. they don't have the total antlerless harvest until the late ML season closes. furthermore , the legislature isn't about to change the law with the ongoing controversy about the DMP.

Actually, extensions of the doe season when it was 2-3 days were not all that uncommon and the law that allowed for it is still in place. I'm not supporting the idea of a 2 day doe season again but the concern that 2 days of bad weather would negate the season just doesnt hold water.

So then we take the ball and run with the 2 day season with the ultimate goal being to allow hunters to have a doe season while at the same time possibly reducing the harvest rate. Nothing irrational about that.

Are you refering to the Executive Director having the power to extend seasons?

The irrational part is it was proposed by a guy that blindly supported the PGC plan, which implemented the concurrent seasons to offset the negative impact that bad weather can have on a 3 day antlerless season. Furthermore, if the season was reduced to just 2 Sats. what would stop the PGC from issuing 100K tags for 2G?

Yes.