Steve863

Nope, surely it wouldn't frustrate me to the degree it seems to frustrate you. Nothing ever stays the same in this world. Some day I may not even have a place to hunt. Yeah, it might sadden me, but in life you move on. I hunt because I like venison. If there wasn't any deer to shoot I would buy more chicken, beef and pork than I already do. In the long run cost wise it will surely cost me less per pound than venison does.

So in your opinion what is this "something that happened that you can't figure out" that is not allowing you to reach your goal like in the past?? Is it more hunters killing deer? Is it loss of habitat? Is it a gun season that is too long? None of these things have really changed significantly in NYS to make deer hunting worse. In fact there are fewer hunters than ever so this should by itself help deer numbers. I think one needs to look at these type of things before they come to a conclusion that things are worse than they were only a few years ago.

rh160kid

honestly steve i dont know what it is!!! I have given it so much thought but cant put my finger on one thing thats the "answer". All those things you say are true, but there is no doubt imo there are far fewer deer (esp bigger bucks) here than say 5-6yrs ago. And let me say its not just me with this observation here. The local bow proshop is the perfect example, VERY few guys shooting bigger bucks and everyone complaining they are just not seeing deer. Also one of the local butchershops that the majority of guys around here use (btw i dont) is claiming the number of deer he has gotten this year is down over 50% so far this year from years past. Some guys say coyotes-i dont buy it. i personally saw alot more coyotes where i hunted years back than now, but some guys say they are overrun with them. The one thing i honestly believe is a BIG factor is how many of these DEC slaughter permits are being issued here. whatever the cause the effects from it cant be argued here,and like me most guys that hunt ALOT are gettin really frustrated/depressed because it just seems to be gettin worse every year. I count the days to next hunting season from the day the last one ends so when OCT. and Nov. come around and the hunting has gotten worse yet again.....Im sorry, to me thats depressing!!!

Steve863

It would be troubling to know that the nuisance permits are the cause of lower deer numbers. Why wouldn't the state give out more doe permits to in season hunters instead of giving permits to guys who just want to blast away? It would be interesting to know exactly how many such permits are given out. I've heard others complain about this also. Surely it would have a major impact on deer numbers if they are giving out such permits without any real thought or keeping close tabs of how many any individual region is issued. I doubt we will ever be told the truth if anyone even knows the whole truth. I think in general the state of NY prefers to have a smaller herd of deer than a larger one basically because of deer/car collisions and insurance liability. Money talks in this world and I am sure insurance companies can bribe politicians and those who make decisions quite well. The state officials surely will listen to those who can grease their palms with a good deal of money way before they will any one of us hunters who might not be happy about seeing as many deer as before.

DeerandbearhoG

I really dont think the issuing of deer tags has much to do w/ a decline in #s. 1st youd have to assume these tags are all being filled. I know alot of guys walking around w/ doe tags that will simply never get filled for a plethora of reasons, 2nd you have to assume that people wouldnt be killing deer if the tags werent issued whaohaha, in this poachers paradice ??? Not likely! I hate to admit it but I know more people who dont tag or report the deer they kill than hunters that do , sad but true. I tend to agree w/ the POV that there is no defintive reason why deer are bigger or more plentiful in some areas, deer just thrive in some areas and some not so much.

rh160kid

I agree with you 100%,we will never know the whole truth in regards to those permits. I do know for a fact tho that the landowners who apply for those permits want the deer gone-COMPLETELY. Therefore when the landowner gets these kill permits and has someone there to carry out killing the deer for them, they usually could care less how many are taken. Many times ive heard of landowners telling the person/persons handling the slaughter permits to go ahead and kill as many as they can. The landowner could care less if that individual follows the rules of the permit or not. They just want the deer gone. The real shame is that most of these farms that have these kill permits in our area allow no hunting on their land. That is a joke if you ask me. I dont want to get off on a tangent about kill permits but i do believe they play a big part in the overall decline in deer #s we are seeing. I think you are exactly right that NYS does prefer a smaller deer herd and probably would go as far and say they might preffer no deer at all for the exact reason you said, insurance companies greasing palms to wipe them out. I said this before in another thread and caught hell for it. Glad to see someone else agrees with me on this one.

TRACKER

The so called nuisance (management) permits are not only given to farmers but many others including apple orchards .
In fact I have at least 8 to 10 orchards within 40 miles or so .
I dont no the outcome of many , but I no first hand of one that gets pretty much UNLIMITED nuisance permits .
There are 5 main hunters and at least 5 others part time that slaughter every deer they see INCLUDING Bucks witch are NOT suppose to be tagged with the nuisance permits .
The orchard owner says the more the guys kill the more tags they will get ..

Not up to me but if its State controlled and free tags as paying hunters and residents we should have a list and all get one chance to fill a tag ...

Just 3 guys of the 10 have shot at least 25 deer so far this year .
Year after year , one day they will wake up and say , HHMMM ,wonder where all the deer are ... IMO.....

crokit

No more needed to be said than that!

Kirch

rh160kid,
I'm seeing the same thing you are seeing. LESS DEER and less good bucks here at the foothills of the Adironacks just out side Saratoga Springs. I personally think the coyote population is up and having a impact. Also, the past 2 winters have been very though on deer. I can recall a few winters in the mid-late 90's where we barely got enough snow to snowmobile. However, last year snow was on the ground from Dec. on and it's reflecting now. I only had ONE shot opp. at a buck this year. I've usually take a 2.5+ year old by now and have filled my buck tag for the past 10 years. I'm depressed as well. Yes, Steve DEPRESSED. I put a lot of time in the woods.... I enjoy......... but not as much when I can't drop the hammer.