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PA bowhunters, anyone seeing chasing behavior yet?

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PA bowhunters, anyone seeing chasing behavior yet?

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Old 10-15-2009, 12:36 PM
  #11  
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I haven't seen any sign of chasing and the bucks haven't started using their traditional scrapes.

Here is a quote from ,When Is the Rut.

When do deer in Pennsylvania breed, how long is the rut, and are there enough bucks to get does bred on time? To answer these questions, Game Commission personnel began collecting breeding date information from roadkilled does from February through May in 2000 and 2001. We determined the timing of the rut by measuring fetus length, which told us how old the fetus was, and then it was a matter of simply back-dating to find out when conception took place.

In addition, we can estimate when birth would have taken place if the doe had carried the fawn through to full term. Nearly 2,000 does were examined, allowing us to measure the breeding season in the fall of 1999 and 2000.

Overall, the rut ran from September into February, but 9 out of 10 does were bred from mid-October to mid-December. The peak of the rut occurred in mid-November (Figure 1). This peak in breeding resulted in a peak fawning time of late May to early June. The gestation period (time from breeding to birth) of deer is about 200 days.

Compared to adult does, female fawns were bred later. Peak breeding by fawns occurred in late November and early December, and nearly half of all fawn breeding occurred from December to February. Fawn breeding probably explains some breeding activity observed by hunters during the firearms season after Thanksgiving.

Overall, one of every four female fawns was pregnant, while nine out 10 adult does were pregnant. Fawns generally had single fawns and adult does usually had twins. Triplets were rare (Table 1).

From these results, we can conclude that Pennsylvania's deer population contains enough bucks to breed does in a relatively short time period. Most adult does are being bred around November, with fawn breeding extending through December into February.

Late breeding by fawns may not be indicative of lack of bucks. Rather, it may be related to maturation of fawns, whereby they don't become sexually mature until late November. Sexual maturity in fawns is related to body size, which is affected by quality and quantity of food as well as birth date. Consequently, fawns in the most productive areas of Pennsylvania may reach sexual maturity and become pregnant (Table 1). Fawns in other areas with poorer nutrition may not reach sexual maturity until the following year, when they are a year and a half old.

Because of the high harvest rate of bucks in Pennsylvania, most breeding has been done by yearling bucks, those in their first breeding season. Throughout the evolution of the whitetail, this has not been the normal situation. In a more natural situation, white-tailed bucks determined breeding privilege based on size and strength. Extremely high buck harvest rates modified this in the last 100 years.

Older bucks play a very important role in the social order of deer. They are the governors of the male side of the population, and typically do most of the breeding. Older bucks provide greater social stability during the breeding season, with yearling bucks participating less in the breeding. Reduced breeding activity allows yearlings to keep more of the body fat and weight they accumulated over the summer and fall, which can become critical during the winter.

Because of the breeding ecology of deer, increasing male competition for mating is desirable in Pennsylvania. This increased competition will force bucks to determine which animals will breed based on their physical fitness. Clearly, antler restrictions will increase competition for male breeding by moving more bucks into the older age classes. This will create a more normal breeding ecology than we had when the male yearling mortality rate was much higher. The presence of more older bucks can alter breeding activities and characteristics of a deer population. But will any changes be found after the new antler restrictions allow more bucks to reach the 2-year-old age class? To answer this question we will continue collecting conception data from roadkilled does as the deer population is modified by the new antler restrictions.

What they found is that breeding rates decreased instead of increasing and there was no change in the breeding window.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:35 PM
  #12  
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You just cant let PA hunters have any discussion at all without trying to turn it into another deer management arguement can you?
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:53 PM
  #13  
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My bro in law says they are moving in westmoreland right at the dark. starting to see the bigggger boys coming out.

Last edited by Buck Hunter 1; 10-16-2009 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:57 PM
  #14  
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My post was not off topic as you claim . It was all about the rut , which is what you said this thread is about.

If you follow the rutting moon theory (second full moon after the equinox) the rut should fall early but this seems too early.
Remember you reap what you sow and you never pass an opportunity to claim I take things out of context, manipulate the data, that I am complaining and whining, that I don't do anything to improve our hunting and that I can't find deer. I am simply responding in kind to your malicious accusations.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:05 PM
  #15  
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I called in three different does last saturday with the can but the only buck I saw paid no attention to my calls.
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Old 10-15-2009, 04:13 PM
  #16  
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Seeing no rutting activity. Have seen only the early halfhearted scraping. Ive heard just about every year stories of guys seeing chasing etc. I dont recall in my entire hunting career ever seeing chasing this early. Every buck id seen before this time each year had been feeding, heading to bed, etc. going about normal routines until a couple weeks when they start covering ground searching. Been that way long as i remember and have seen VERY little deviation timewise from year to year.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:51 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by livbucks
What is he saying for this year?

According to Alsheimer, the "rutting moon" is on Nov 2. A few days before , buck activity should start to spike, and number of scrapes should explode almost overnight. This is when you realy start to see bucks on their feet at any hour of the day....by about Nov 5, they begin chasing in earnest every doe they encounter, and by the 10th, breeding is beginning. His predictions are usually very close to what i am seeing, but remember the two biggest suppressors of daytime deer movement are hunting pressure or daytime temps over 45 degrees. Either of those two factors can make you wonder what happened to your rut activity, when in truth it is still happening but mostly at night if its too warm or the hunting pressure is high. If you get a clear cold, frosty morning the first week of Nov, and you are in a good funnel area with fairly light pressure....even with today's lower deer numbers you can still have amazing mornings. I have seen up to eight rack buck (not all shooters, though) in a single morning at that time...hard to pattern a buck because they are moving so much, but find good travel corridors, or bottlnecks downwind of known doe bedding areas, and you can be in position to see alot of bucks cruising through the same area. I rely heavily on doe estrous scents and calling from halloween till the end of archery. Oh...Alsheimers trail cam movement data showed peak deer movement time during the rut was actually highest between eight and nine a.m. where human pressure was light. I'll take morning over evening any day I can. Also the peak breeding is NOT the best time to see bucks as they are pinned down in thickets tending doe, unless you happen to find one between does. Much better buck movement during seeking and chasing from about Halloween till around the tenth of Nov. Mark your calendar, hunt hard and take notes then compare his predictions to what you see. I think you'll find the guy is pretty darn accurate.

Last edited by Screamin Steel; 10-15-2009 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 10-16-2009, 03:42 AM
  #18  
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How can you see Bucks chasing Doe's when there are no deer in PA. Go to Illinois where there is a MONSTER behind every fence!

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Old 10-16-2009, 04:02 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by hatchet jack
How can you see Bucks chasing Doe's when there are no deer in PA. Go to Illinois where there is a MONSTER behind every fence!

Hatchet Jack

Hey Ed, I heard they're gonna have a big sale next week!

All Pope and young deer will be 20% off starting Oct 25!

Booners will be 40% off but supplies are limited and there will be no rainchecks

There is also a 5% discount if you shoot a doe!!

It's still not as easy as it sounds though. They dont take American Express
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:24 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by BTBowhunter
Hey Ed, I heard they're gonna have a big sale next week!

All Pope and young deer will be 20% off starting Oct 25!

Booners will be 40% off but supplies are limited and there will be no rainchecks

There is also a 5% discount if you shoot a doe!!

It's still not as easy as it sounds though. They dont take American Express
I thought they line them all up and you pick the one you want.
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