I have no obligation to explain the PGC plan to you. RSB has done a pretty darn good job of it. Way better than I could. You simply dismiss any and all explanations given to you yet you have no better suggestions.

To constantly disparage something without offering anything constructive in the way of a solution exposes the fact that you have no real understanding of the current DMP and no real understanding of how to properly manage a statewide deer herd.

Most of us here arent well qualified to do that either, but by your constant criticism of the professionals, you have obligated yourself to produce your "better ideas" or look even more foolish (if thats possible).

"have no obligation to explain the PGC plan to you."

Because you cant. Noone can, and that includes pgc. Otherwise they wouldnt let all the "confusion" exist. They have a bazillion little brainwashing pamplets, the have as many pages on their website as a webster dictionary, yet NO explanation of these things that stick out like a sore thumb??? ANYWHERE?? Do you contend that they were too stupid to realize the way the data was presented in the annual report would show it didnt support the program??? Yet they give the data to the public with NO EXPLANATION?? They also have personell that regularly carouse many of these message boards, (such as the EDUCATION DIRECTOR who is a member of more than one message board) and they have a very good idea exactly what hunters are saying. This isnt a new issue either its been discussed for a good while, prior to this year. They have no answer other than kill the deer Because a tiny minority of econuts run the show, and they want what they want and thats that.

"RSB has done a pretty darn good job of it."

LMAO! yeah. Most notable thing hes EVER said was "id like to see hunters take their money and take a flying leap!! Even though Id hardly call that a "good" source for unbiased info, I havent even seen a good ATTEMPT from him at putting the pieces of this impossible puzzle together. Yet interestingly, since you have no answer you "pass the buck" to someone else, who gave no more solid comprehensible answers than you have.

"Way better than I could. You simply dismiss any and all explanations"

I believe thats exactly what SHOULD happen when an explanation makes zero sense and definately doesnt answer the question???

"given to you yet you have no better suggestions."

Ive seen many given through the years on here as well as elsewhere. Want more ideas? Look to other states. Almost all of them are doing it better than we are. But as I stated it starts at the top. I dont care what options might be better (definately better) they will not be explored with current crew in charge. They simply arent interested. They have made it perfectly clear hunters in Pennsylvania are the odd men out, and their input is not wanted. Pgc is ecoextreme to put it politely, and they want what they want.

And I have no obligation to provide a plan for you. But, I thought I would give you the opportunity to show everyone how much you know about the plan you support ,but instead you confirmed you are just another blind follower who supports a plan they don't understand.

However, if you would like a plan that has been proven to improve the health of the herd, the PGC could once again manage the herd like they did from 1980 t0 2000,which resulted in the harvest of 203K buck in 2000 and 2001 and produced a 2.5+ buck harvest of 52K in 2002 ,which was higher than the 2.5+ buck harvest in 2006 and 2007. It also produced breeding rates that were 5% higher than in 2007 along with higher productivity.

So why wouldn't you support a plan that produced the best deer hunting we ever had in PA?

On the contrary, you have confirmed that you have no idea how the deer should be managed other than to wish for the good old days of far too many deer decimating their habitat in most of their traditional range.

Your idea of the best deer hunting we've ever had in PA is an annual deer shoot every Monday after thanksgiving and a 75 lb spike on every pole. No thanks!!!

We now have a hunting season with better quality, healthier animals instead of a shooting season at itty bitty deer. Sorry that you can't handle that but thats the way it is and the way it's going to be:barmy:

Think that the "good old days" of the early-to-mid 2000s also coincided with PA being identified as the worst state in the Union for deer/auto crashes and complaints about crop and other property damage by deer reaching alltime highs. :lolabove:

Well imagine that.:eek2: 21 percent more vehicles on the road.

http://www.ruralpa.org/news0303.html

Yep, think it is a safe bet that the number of drivers in many states has risen in recent years. Should that be ignored when developing management strategies for deer? Dunno if the number of farmers and land in crops has risen or dropped, but should growing complaints about crop damage also be ignored as well just for the sake of holding on to the good old days of deer hunting? Its easy to complain and demand management strategies that guarantee high harvest rates and plenty of bucks for everybody. But the devil is in the details.

Let's see you back up that claim with PGC stats ,instead of just stating your very biased opinion.. The fact is the total harvest contains a higher percentage of itty bitty deer now , than it did in 1999.

Forest health has decreased in 2G since the herd has been reduced by over 50% and forest health in 2A went from 61% to 36%. So, once again you don't know what you are talking about.

Thats especially funny coming from you. When you get a PGC stat, you either take it out of context, twist it to your own agenda or dismiss it entirely. But why don't you produce the stats that back up your claim that we have a higher percentage of itty bitty deer now than in 99

Well that statement implies that you think you know what your talking about so why don't you explain your theory behind those "stats"
Kinda sounds to me like 2A still has too many deer (look out, here comes a huge hissy fit from you know who, LOL)
It also sounds like 2G still hasnt recovered yet.
The difference between us is that I can recognize that there is obviously more to the story than numbers on a computer screen.

"We now have a hunting season with better quality, healthier animals instead of a shooting season at itty bitty deer."

Look to be about the same size to me. Seems the recent scoring session didnt exactly support your theory. A bust.Your also intending to mislead on the "healthier" statement. You have been provided the pgc data showing otherwise, therefore you cannot claim ignorance for making unsupported claim/ telling another whopper.:arms:

Good point about 2A there bluebird. Very interesting that we cut the herd in half, had acceptable ratings for regeneration even in the earliest study when deer herd was MUCH higher, we cut the herd significantly, Then later the percentage of regeneration then went from 58% in 2005, to 61% the following year....

Then in the very next years assessment...out of the clear blue BAM!! Straight down the toilet to 46%! lmao.... and the NEXT year...2007 even further flushed at 36%!!! And thats even with reduction occurring SINCE the claims of stabilization according to the pgc annual reports! :eek2::eek2::eek2: I guess the audubon folks decided they wanted the ENTIRE forest floor covered with trillium as opposed to only half of it now.

Interestingly enough, pgc moved up the antlerless allocation deadline, making them easier to get and also making them available longer also added opportunity. No doubt in anticipation of further reducing wmus where they are already selling about all the antlerless tags they can sell already. Like 2 bazillion found in 2A (despite claimed goal of stabilization mind you lmao!) which it usually takes us into the season before they are sold out. Anyway, it appears that once it comes time again to reevaluate the goal 5 years since the last time, they will have some nice manufactured data by then to add to the slaughter even more. Gonna be some wmus taking one helluva hit again.

And some dont want to believe the econuts running the show are SCAMARTIST??:eek2::eek2::eek2: