To many raptors
 

Why are they protected? Can they get over populated and cause a disease among them as the deer herd? If so why are we not allowed to harvest them other than federal law? If a state secede from the union,does the state then have to follow the federal laws when it comes to laws they have made? Asserting a states rights as a sovereign State under the United States Constitution.Can they decide their own laws as long as it is legal under the constitution?
Like start killing some raptors to get the balance back in our small game animals here. Between the predators,raptors and hunters,we are diminishing our small game animals. There is not enough to go around any more. Some raptors need to be taken out to balance it out a bit I would think. Coyotes are a huge problem also and not enough of them are being taken out each year.It is very unbalanced and nothing is being done about it.

I agree with you on one point.... There are too many hawks, owls and other birds of prey. They need to be thinned out if there is any hope of reestablishing a wild pheasant population or increasing the population of any small game animal. As far as your "constitutional" argument... No state is going to secede from the union for any of the reasons you have mentioned here or in your PA anti-gun thread.

The birds of prey are protected by federal law. I know it is becoming more common for some to shoot redtail hawks and such, actually always has been depending on the area in question and what type of poultry or pigeon or whatever bird people raise and have the hawk population raise an equal amount by feeding off these raised birds. Will I report someone I suspect of killing a hawk? No, I'd thank him for taking the risk and saving a few more of the small game animals that have been almost wiped out in our state. I do what I can when I farm food plots to increase the odds of these small game animals surviving. If each of us who owned some fields would create some cover and habitat we would greatly increase the odds of successful reintroductions of species and increase the populations of others.

If ya grill em with a little "Franks red hot" they taste just like chicken.

The eco extremists would cry "fowl" (foul) if they ever read this thread...Regardless of how many songbirds the hawks take down each day. Too many hunters and nonhunters thrill to the sight of a hawk or other raptor, and the protection decreed upon them by federal govt will probably be in effect indefinitely. It seems that they have really exploded in the last decade....no doubt they are having a large impact on young rabbits as well as young pheasants, but good luck changing that. Better off convincing local farmers to practice game friendly farming, letting those hayfields go a couple weeks longer for first cut would save alot of ground nesting birds and young rabbits. Also taking down as many foxes and 'yotes as possible. Even coons, skunks and possums have been known to destroy nests and prey on young game birds.

The protection of raptors and even our existing regs on crows is the result of a Fed treaty with Mexico (of all places LOL) and dates back to the very early 70's.

Any change would have to come from the Fed level first. My guess is that the devil will be building snowman before that ever changes.

i believe habitat only accounts for part of survival.But cover can protect against raptors but not against K9 and their noses in high foilage. Alot of raptors do a number on game birds after the rain. You ever notice how the game birds come out to roads and shorter foilage areas after a heavy rain or during a light rain?Easy targets for raptors.

According to "the science", raptor and predator populations are tied directly to prey populations: Lots of prey, lots of raptors and four legged predators. If the prey population tumbles, so do the populations of what eats 'em.

Figure it's worked that way long before man stuck his nose in it, but some protection was necessary when people started "competing" with raptors and wanted them gone.

Don't see the Feds dropping raptor protection any time soon. I have no problem with that. There are lots of redtails in the areas up north where I've hunted since I was a kid. I like seeing and hearing them. There are also now ospreys and eagles, glad to have them around, too.

Western states have been trying to eradicate song dogs for generations. Last I'd heard, they're still around. Kill 'em if you see 'em, don't expect them to ever disappear.

Coyotes are opportunists. They will eat about anything that includes berries to field mice to dear to road kills. Just because you got them in your area doesn't mean there is a lot of game animals. It just means there is food there but what kind is the question. If you don't have predators I bet the game populations are quite high. Goes the same for raptors.

"If you don't have predators I bet the game populations are quite high. Goes the same for raptors."

You have it backwards...no game, no predators. Feel free to look it up for further info.

I agree, the birds of prey need thinned out badly. They are hell on the small game. Also slaughter the turkey poults. Lots of red tails around here.

As for owls, Ive had 4 occassions where Ive been in the predawn dark sitting in my treestand and have been hit in the head, back of neck (luckily hood was covering it!) and shoulder by those &^%#. LOL Dad has also been clipped.

Dont have a clue what the heck they think I am, but they sure seem to be intent on getting a beak into me.lol. I was thinking maybe the barn owls thought my shoulder or head when moving mightve been a roosted turkey, but when I was also hit by one of the pint sized screech owls, that theory went out the window.

I ain't never been hit by an owl or raptor. But I have had flying squirrels land on my lap in the pre-dawn darkness. Thank God for safety belts because that was the only thing keeping me from bailing out of that treestand in a right prompt fashion.:woot:

lmao now that must have been a sight

If it had been light out, they'd have likely wound up in his "road kill' stew pot.

:barmy:

You should hear what kind of scream a full grown man can make when one goes up inside his pant leg's.
:jaw:

Most likely those were chicken hawks.lol:s1:

Should have known that Id get smart reply when speaking in front of ecoextremists about thinning birds of prey.

If chickenhawks were so rampant in Pa, your bones wouldve been picked clean decades ago. lol.

4 times? LMAO!
Why didnt the voices tell you to duck?

maybe they think you are a bluebird... LOL

This is not a very good pic but this is one with a rabbit for it's dinner.. As it is the same thing here with the raptors..


Another of the same Hawk....



Notice how this one kept a wing up to try and blend in with it's surrondings..

Neat pics Phil! Thanks for sharing them.:biggrin:

Just today i seen a hawk fly about 6 feet above the ground thru my cousins yard.
Wasn't sure why it was so low,anyway my cousin and nephew started to play with the metal detector. I told him about the hawk and if he seen it when he pulled in. he said no. but any way there in the yard about 15 minutes later he found half a rabbit . So that is why the hawk was so low. He was comming down to finish it off right when my cousin pulled in and just kept flying.

Most hawks here that we have seen will drop down out of the sky onto thier prey. After nailing thier pray will stay on it until it is dead. Then fly away with the victim to either eat in peace or feed thier young with..

Ruger developed the 17 RFM a while back and all through out the development program avian predator numbers kept expanding.
With blended powders and quality bullets, speed and incredible accuracy were the results.

These two factors happening during the same time time period coincidence? I don't think so.:fighting0007:

This from 2007 article I found.


Endangered Rabbits Returned to Wild, Quickly Eaten

EPHRATA, Wash. — Most of a group of 20 endangered rabbits that were reintroduced to the wild with great fanfare last month have been killed by predators, state officials said.

Hays said two males were removed earlier this month and will be returned at the end of April. The other 14 rabbits are believed to have fallen victim to predators, mainly coyotes, but also hawks and owls, Hays said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265456,00.html



Loosing battle when you got to many predators to save any thing worth hunting.

Hows the wood rats doing? To bad they don't take as much concern in or small game animals as they do stupid rats.

RSB will _ _ _ _ himself if he reads this thread, I am torn as I like watching the eagles and ospreys work. the hawks and owls seem to be a dime a dozen anymore and i have had more than one come into my dying rabbit set up! Mybe need thinned out, some cover left. It goes back to what I have said before, take control of your hunting areas, do not wait on the PGC to help or act. Create your hedge rows of berry's and bushes and brush piles. Create food plots design and carry out an animal plan built for all animals not just one species. If you have one species you got all the others w/it. Raptors have their place, however in saving one you have made the playing fileds lopsided for the others.

That's the same message from a "few" forum members that's been shared before. Sadly,for some.It is easier,to pizz and moan.

Yes,exactly. Everyone owns their own hunting lot to do this. Everyone enjoys paying the PGC so they can take care of rats and other non game animals with licenses sales. I can't believe people excpect anything from their dollars they give the PGC. What the he!! are those idiots thinking by complaining and thinking they have a voice in the matter? I am glad there are some really intelligent people on this forum like blkpowder to show us the way. Thank you oh mighty bright and intelligent one with your in the box wisdom.:hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:

If you say so. Again i am paying someone to do it for me. I am paying for habitat for the animal I am hunting on SGL. I am not paying to hunt and kill the animal. The animals are not owned by anyone. No one owns them. The same as when you pay the water bill. You are not paying for the water but for the lines and pumps and chemicals to treat that water for safe consumption. Again you can't own wild animals nor can you claim ownership of water in a lake or pond or stream. It is illegal to do so. If I owned my own land I would not be paying for a hunting licenses. That is the Gods truth.No one owns those animals.

If you say so.:s3:

Another one who thinks Pa. wildlife is an entitlement.

Question: Who owns the wild animals? Answer: No one. Then again to who ever disagrees. whatever

"Another one who thinks Pa. wildlife is an entitlement"

Chalk me up as another. Reponsible wildlife management is absolutely an entitlement. We pay supposed professionals for that entitlement.