To many screw ups in PGC flier
 

Think about it. You can hunt all year with Xbows but you can't now.
You don't have to display license on back,but you still have to now.
What in the world is one to think now about what is legal and what is not if you have so many screw ups written to get the hunter in trouble? No magistrate would hold a hunter accountable if fined for either of the two above screw ups. Just how many more are in the digest that we are not aware of. What good is the rules in that flier if they are not accurate? Again,no judge will rule against the hunter if the PGC writes up a citation after seeing that many flaws in a supposed to be hunting rules for this hunting season. You can't be changing them as you like after they been printed. unreal

They have to finalize the rules before printing, Thats probably to simple for them to figure out.Its that way every year

Wow, what a rant! Actually, no judge should consider the Digest as an excuse, because the Digest is and never has been "the law". The Digest is a summary of "the rules" and not the last word. Rules change, the deadline for printing/delivering the Digest, does not.

Again,no judge will rule against the hunter if the PGC writes up a citation after seeing that many flaws in a supposed to be hunting rules for this hunting season. You can't be changing them as you like after they been printed. unreal

Denny other than the digest where are you suppose to find the info?
I hope your answer isnt pgc website or something. Because many dont own them or know how to use them. If fined i am sure many will claim there only source for game rules is the one pgc gives you when you buy your license.

Knee jerk reactions like this make the BOC look like fools. In one meeting they approve x-bows but outlaw magnifying scopes state wide ,even for the handicapped and SRA areas. Then they revoke that decision but limit x-bow use to 2 weeks even though they know the Digest has been published and released. it just doesn't make any sense.

I think when the digest comes out what is printed should be the law.
I am starting to wonder if all this is a mistake or a way to make money via fines

There is a deadline for submitting any material to the printer and I reckon the Digest is supposed to be printed and delivered in time to hand out when the licenses go on sale. One year there was a snafu of some sort and they were a week or so late.

All of the "major" regs are clearly defined in the Digest and the vast majority of them haven't changed in years. If you've (all of us) been hunting for some time and haven't already figured most of them out, you've not been paying much attention.

Some things are often not settled before the print date and are usually referenced on some of the first pages (this or that issue remains unrevolved by "press time"). This year is no exception and RSB has already addressed most of them.

Judging by the comments I hear each year at license time and read on the internet, it appears that some are either always looking for fresh nits to pick...or are possibly just so stupid that they ought not be allowed to carry anything more dangerous than a random thought?

For many years we got a tiny booklet for the Digest. Some guys still complain they did away with them, because they'd fit in a license holder. Now we have one the size of most hunting magazines, that contains far more info than those little booklets did and people complain they're too big; have ads; contain too much info; and whatever else they can whine about.

What page is the so called not carved in stone Xbow regs on?How are people supposed to know these new regs then? If you look on all the crossbows pages, 7,30,34 and 43. There is no mention of we might change these regs. I talked to a few of my hunting buddies today, They all said the same thing,if it is specified in the flier then it is law. Especially when it is mentioned legal on all the pages I listed above without a "if or but" in the reg.

They all said the same thing,if it is specified in the flier then it is law

Doubt that'll hold up in court, but if that's what they say, go with it then.

The xbow regs in place at the time the Digest was printed, are what's in it. Anything that changes after that, will be "the law", not what's printed in the Digest.

Read what it says at the bottom of page 5:

"The Digest is not the Game & Wildlife Code or its attendant regulations and should not be considered final on interpretation. We have simply summarized the more important and frequently misunderstood hunting and trapping regulations. Review the Digest carefully. If there is anything you do not understand, contact your nearest PGC office."

That message or some variation of it, has been in every Digest I can recall over the past 50 years that I've had a hunting license.

Don't see much point in continuing to fuss about what's in the Digest or what isn't, because it is clearly not "the law" and never has been.

[QUOTE=DennyF;3383053]

Read what it says at the bottom of page 5:

We have simply summarized the more important and frequently misunderstood hunting and trapping regulations.

QUOTE]

There is no mis understanding of what was said and printed when Xbows was included in all of archery season back when it was voted in. Plain and simple,there was no ifs or buts,no mis understanding of what was said and voted in back then and what the flier has printed is correct and not a mis understanding.It is a re neg on someones part that won't hold up. How is it a mis understanding denny? It has now been annouced twice that it is legal during all year use. 2 to 1 denny. 2 yes to 1 no.

Also the first mention on the front cover of the flier is, Get this. Crossbows Permitted in the Archery Seasons, p.43

Doesn't matter what it said when the Digest was printed. Any and all subsequent changes in any regs, will supercede it.

Apparently you didn't bother to read the disclaimer at the bottom of page 5, that's been part of every Digest since I can remember?

Take all the votes you wish to, none of them will change the reality of what is what. Fuss-on.

Yes I just read it denny and there is nothing that again may I say is a mis understanding. It is not confussing at all to read. The only thing that I don't understand is the bobcat tag during reg deer seasons. It don't make sense and might be a typo. But as for Xbows,it is not mis print or mis understanding. There is nothing illegal or could be illegal about useing a Xbow during the whole season. Again that is a re neg if it passes. And I have heard nothing about it outside of this forum. I could find no mention of it at all anywhere. Again how are we to know if it is changed? By getting a citation and then going in front of a judge and saying how was I to know this was illegal? Then maybe we should all start calling the PGC and asking them about every single detail in the flier. Yea,that is not going to work now is it. I bet some PGC don't even know about this change comming up if it is for that matter.

Seems like Denny is being thick headed again.

If the rules in the digest may or may not be correct, then the digest is junk. How are we supposed to know which of the rules have been modified and are incorrect? Are we all supposed to call the PGC and have them give us a compete dissertation of the current rules?

Yes, our freinds at the PGC should be embarassed that they are not capable of getting the rules established on time and are not capable of printing an accurate digest. Seems like two fairly simple tasks.

You two figure it out on your own, it's probably the closest either of you will come to reality.

I believe the people who want Xbows wont have a problem useing them all year long.

Also Thursday — and it's no coincidence it occurred the same day the board of game commissioners met — the state House Game & Fisheries Committee voted to send House Bill 965 to the floor for a vote by the full delegation.

HB 965 seeks to change the state's definition of a bow to include crossbows. Right now, the two are different under the law.

If HB 965 is approved by the House and Senate and is signed by Gov. Ed Rendell prior to the start of the archery deer season, then the board of game commissioners' wranglings are entirely moot, because a crossbow will be the same as a compound, longbow and recurve, and it can be used in a season in which those other bows are allowed.

Although it makes me sick to my stomach I have to agree with "The Maverick" or mav 1 or what ever.

It's one thing for there to misprint in the digest but it's another thing for the board to INTENTIONALLY create a situation where the digest is wrong and their own press releases are bogus by reversing such a major reg three days into a season if they vote away four weeks of x-bow hunting statewide during the Oct 5-6 meeting.

Changing a reg like this DURING an on going season is on par with flying a 747 with a jet fighter behind it over NY City. Yep, those you pulled that stunt were legally allowed to do so but do you really want people like this making decisions?


Wv Gino - bow hunter since 1982, bow hunter who does not own a crossbow, bow hunter has never even shot a x-bow, bow hunter who
gets out with a bow about 5 times a week begining of Oct. thru the week of Thanksgiving in two different states.

I agree. There is no logical reason to reverse the vote that was made at the previous meeting. The PGC has been constantly changing the regs since the plan was implemented which makes analyzing the harvest data and population estimates extremely difficult.

If the hunting digest can't be taken at face value, then what purpose does the digest serve?


If things have to be double checked and are not to be considereded fact, why have it?

I understand about printing deadlines and all, but something needs to change.

Why not run a hunting season from January to January like WV?


If you show a majistrate the digest and what it says, I feel that many times the hunter may walk away without a fine.

Laws that affect every facet of our lives get changed all the time. The major difference here is that a digest gets printed every year for the hunters convenience.

Did we all get a digest when they passed a law making it illegal to drive in the left lane when not passing? Did we all get a digest when PA decided to change the DUI threshold to .08 from .10?

Our township passed a curfew for teenagers. guess what? We found out when my kid walked to the 24 hr c-store after 11PM. Maybe I shoulda bitched when he got a warning that my township didnt publish a digest.

The point is that laws change all the time. It is and always has been the responsibility of the citizen to know the law. The digest is a guide only. Anyone who is interested enough to buy a crossbow will undoubtedly get the word. If not, he may find a sympathetic magistrate and maybe he won't. Personally, I have very little sympathy for someone who has his head in the sand so deep that he'd have no clue by October.

The old BOC was irresponsible in rushing the xbow thing against overwhelming public comment and the new BOC is trying to right a wrong and in the process, created a no win situation.

i was reading that crossbows could be used only for first 2 weeks of archery season,did that get approved?:deer:

I bet it was posted in the local paper though about the new laws. Are the PGC going to spend money for all the local papers telling of changes though? Also the laws that BTB mentioned was for safety and security reasons.

Press releases don't cost anything and thats the standard way any governmental agency gets the word out. If the new crossbow vote holds up, I'd guess that thw WCO's will probably show some leniency but the bottom line is that a guy would have to be holed up in a cave or be out of the country (which could apply to our servicemen and women) to not have heard by the archery season.

> was reading that crossbows could be used only for first 2 weeks of archery season,did that get approved?

Not final.

As of right now x-bows will be legal the first six week of statewide archery season.

What might happen is that on Oct. 6th, three days into archery season the board may vote to finalize a proposal to limit x-bow
use to Oct. 3rd thru the 17th statewide. Those that have handicapped permits would still be able to use them.

Those that became handicapped between now and Oct 6th are SOL since the is no way to obtain a handicapped permit since as right now there is not need for a handicap permit since everyone can use a x-bow during the full six weeks of archery season (oct 3rd - Nov. 14th).


WV Gino

What a fiasco? Put a tent over that circus!

Has handicapped permits gone up at all that you know of? I know they would of dropped after everyone applied for it that was going to. Dr.s will issue anything for a buck now a days. It's no longer the doctor telling you what you need but you telling the doctors what you need. Same with drugs, Dr. make money from the drug companies for useing their brand also. Just go in and say hey Doc, I need this drug you think its ok for me. Yep sure is,heres your prescription,go have fun now. I don't use a crossbow, but I don't think it is right to re neg either unless it causes harm.