Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

What is the fine if a guy were to take it upon himself to do some habitat improvement on SGL?


Maybe plant a few trees, fertilize a few others?

How about just pruning a few existing trees?

What if a guy were to plow up a field and plant some clover or something?

What kind of fines we talking here?

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Stupidity doesn't have a set cost it just depends if you excel at it or if your just plain standard stupid..

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

You gotta admit, when you read that line about plowing up a field, you cracked a smile.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

If this place didn't make me smile I,d find something that did , like Viagra commercials.[8D]

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Or Enzyte. It makes Bob smile. [/align]

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Contact the local Land Manager thru the regional office first and tell him you want to help.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

As RWJ pointed out if people really want to help improve the game lands they can contact the local Land Manager. We have volunteers working on habitat projects all over the state but it has to be organized.

If it isn’t organized you would have people doing all kinds of things that really aren’t beneficial to wildlife and really nothing more then beneficial to themselves. You would also have guys cutting trees down to make a clear-cut wasting valuable timber. You would have guys cutting beneficial wildlife trees because they didn’t know what they were and you would have guys making food plots where other hunters don’t want food plots. In other words all you would have is chaos that result in few improvements and only more problems.

This is an organized work project on the game lands here in Elk County last spring where over thirty volunteers from all across the state showed up to do organized habitat improvement work.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s141/RBODENHORN/028.jpg


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s141/RBODENHORN/035.jpg


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s141/RBODENHORN/041.jpg


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s141/RBODENHORN/047.jpg


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s141/RBODENHORN/049.jpg


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http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s141/RBODENHORN/027.jpg


A lot can be done and is being done to improve the future for both wildlife and hunters with volunteers working with the Game Commission toward a common improvement of the habitat.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Unfortunately all the efforts of the volunteers are negated, when it comes to deer, because the SGLs are being managed at much lower DDs than the MSY CC of the SGLs,so the DCNR can get the regeneration they want without fencing.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Once again your tunnel vision prevents you from seeing the benefits good habitat has on small game populations.

I haven't heard of grouse killing any fawns or even rabbits chewing on them.[:o]

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Yup. Without all them wabbits, the deer have nothing to eat.[:o]

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

That solves my rabbit mystery, I have way to many deer.;)

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

I qualified my post to limit my comments to benefiting deer, so your comment is totally irrelevant and misguided.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

So once again I am spot on with my tunnel vision comment. You are to blinded by bitterness to accept the fact that good habitat is the key to all wildlife, be it deer or grouse habitat is the key, open your eyes, you might be surprised what you could see if you just looked.:eek:

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Actually you were totally out in left field and not even in the ball game. Improved habitat on SGLs will only result in more deer if the PGC reduces doe tags and allows the herd to increase. While the improved habitat may definitely benefit other species it won't have a significant impact on the deer since they already have all the food they need to be happy and healthy.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Well then. A cold blooded killer like me could very easily help restore the bunny population for you.[&:]

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

That not only isn’t true it is one of the stupidest comments I have ever seen anyone make. It just proves beyond any doubt that you are totally clueless about the wildlife/habitat and food relationships.

I simply don’t know how to address the habitat/population density issue where a person is that uninformed or irrational. We can get ten years olds to understand it, but I guess you truly are even below that level of logic or learning ability.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

deer eating rabbit, now i have seen everything.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Even a blithering idiot knows that the reason the HR plan was implemented is because the harvest of 505K deer in 2000 only kept the herd stable. That is not the sign of an unhealthy herd , but an indication of a herd that was very healthy and very productive. Since then, breeding rates have decreased by 5% and productivity has also decreased. That is clear evidence that when we had 1.6M deer the herd was below the MSY CC of the habitat.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Every time you post something like this all I can picture is the little man behind the curtain in the wizard of OZ.
Why you simply don't understand that you and those like you are a very small percentage of the states population that feel deer numbers should be managed at the maximum sustained yield so that you might actually be able to find one.
So blinded by hate to admit that all of the states wildlife needs a home and cover to survive. Grouse numbers are at an all time low, predators in ever increasing numbers prey on them 24/7 because of habitat destruction and very little ground cover. Groundnesting birds such as mallard ducks and turkeys are having very little success because of predation from coons, opossums and avian predators because of limited nesting habitat.
And to top that off why don't you support lowering the speed limits on state hwy's and and long prison terms for poachers as the two of them account for more dead deer than dmap tags.:eek:

BTW I love how you the 1.6 million deer number after whining for years that there is no proof that that figure was real.;)

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

I didn't say the herd should be managed at the MSY carrying capacity, I said that even when we had 1.6 M deer it was below the MSY CC, which means the habitat wasn't controlling the herd as RSB claims.

When we had 1.5 M PS deer that figure did not include the SRA counties and therefore it is quite reasonable to conclude we had around 1.6 M PSD in 2000.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Are you for real? Seems to me that recent reports show grouse at a statewide average increasing and wild turkey populations at or near record levels, but hey...if the habitat doomsday scenario justifies more HR in your mind, have at it. You make it sound like PA is turning into a moonscape, and all because of the deer. Bet you buy into global warming too, sport.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

it used to be back in 60s i could walk out of my home in town, walk up any hollow and shoot AT grouse all day.

reasons were GOOD HABITAT,HARDLY SAW HUNTER,LOT OF TRAPPERS KILLING FOX/COONS, LACK OF HAWKS,MOST SHOT A OWL WHEN THEY SAW ONE.

now we have, BAD HABITAT,COYOTES, HAWKS, OWLS, FOX,FISHERS,RACCOONS AND HUNTING PRESSURE ON AREAS WITH GOOD HABITAT .this year i was only turkey hunting for 2 days in spring do to dad being sick.in those 2 days i saw 18 hunters in about a 3 mile area.why, because feed/turkeys were all there in one area and hunters today are scouting more than ever before.30 years ago i would not see hunters ever.

this is causing the game to be hunted out.just like fish we stock, they fish hole out as soon as we dump them in.

i cant get many to help while hunting, i say, CAN YOU LEAVE GROUSE GO AND ONLY KILL ONE.they wont,same with doe hunting, they will drive same area over and over until they clean the doe out.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Sproul agree on hunting the grouse, terrible numbers out there and i used to be poart of the surveys back in the 80's. I watched the grouse siting.drumming/flushiung/shooting numbers drop dramatically ovr a 10 year period until I quit becaus ei moved. I have watched and read about the 10 year cyclyes but don't know if I can remember them coming back in any numbers like the 70's - early 80's. Predators I feel is the big reason for this gamse drop, rabbits etc. I have been maintaining small game habitat for years and not allowing small game hunting on that patch, #'s of flushes etc.have been down, but carcasses which include turkey are up!! Again, i beleive if yu can, do not depend on the PGC to help you get control of your ground, you have to do it. But they will write tickets because you take care of your ground! Depradation from flying and ground predators has killed small game hunting in my area. No I don't want to hunt a stocked bird or pay for a ranch hunt, I want wild birds. Rabbits are so infrequent you jump up in the air when one flushes out of a pile of brush. Take control of your area, be careful and start a rebuilding process of youre woods and hunting areas. We started with the deer 8-9 years ago and have been including small game as we grow. Good luck!

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

I sure don't see any shortage of turkeys. And the grouse populations in these parts are pretty darned good. I seen a good number of broods this spring. Ain't no shortage of songbirds either. They were so loud at dawn this spring that unless you were pretty close to a gobbler, the songbird noise drowned out the gobbles.

I dunno where people come up with these idears.[:'(]

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

I haven't heard a grouse here in five years. Crows have become the state bird.[:@]

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

When the vast majority of the forests are in the pole and saw timber stage you aren't going to have a lot of grouse no matter how much we reduce the herd.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

I know its hard for you to fathom a post without HR,AR,MSY,CC,DPSM or any other of your made of fiction novelty ideas, but habitat is the key to wildlife and world is a hell of a lot bigger than what you see out your window. I live in Crawford county, its not pole timber or any other of you deer free idea of what wood lots look like.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

if we are looking at grouse numbers ,say here in clinton county from now back to lets say 1980s.IT IS MUCH BETTER.
why.from what i am seeing its do to HABITAT.everywhere we had big fire or trees were removed, in about 6 years we have grouse/turkeys.you can walk open woods and see very little grouse ,ONLY during afternoon when they take nap do you see them in laural .

problem is now the hunters ,us and predators are keying into these areas.remember me saying 18 hunters in small area after turkeys.no way the game is spread out like the 60s was,its all contained in small areas and pressure is on game bigtime.same with deer hunting,you can drive for miles and not see a hunter then 12 trucks in 1 area .

does that mean you can come out and just hunt area with good habitat and get grouse,NO WAY,ITS BEING OVERHUNTED.2 years ago was first time i saw hunters driving for grouse,they had 5 drivers and 4 on watch.they ruined my hunt that day and i moved to another area.they did not care if i was already in that spot.in one way thats good because grouse will be flushed out of area when the hunters arrive,most wont hunt away from the clearcut areas etc.I DO and i do see more grouse but they are extremely hard to hunt and i have to worry more about snakes and porkys/traps.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

In 2000 Crawford Co had 158 SM of pole timber , 285 SM of saw timber and onlt 42 SM of seedling /saplings.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

That is nothing more then your highly uninformed opinion.

I too believe the 2000 Penna. deer population most likely was in the 1.6 million range but, that is exactly the reason we needed herd reduction long before that year and also why we have so few deer in many areas today.

The deer populations would never have got that high had it not been for having several years of excellent mast crop years being combined with virtually no adverse or deep winter snow conditions. Those ideal environmental factors combined with record low female deer harvests allowed the deer herd to very rapidly increase way beyond what the habitat could sustain long term.

When the deer herds across much of the state increased to those levels everyone paying any attention to what was happening with the habitat quickly recognized the deer habitat was very rapidly declining to the point we were going to have a deer population crash if the herd wasn’t soon reduced to a long term sustainable level. That herd reduction initiative was finally started in 2000 but was simply too little and too late to allow sufficient habitat recovery prior to the harsh winters that hit the northern and mountainous regions of the state in the winters of 2002 through 2004.

Besides having the more harsh winters in recent years we have also now experienced about a six year run of poor mast crop conditions in many if not most areas of the state. Those factors have combined to hold fawn recruitment at much lower levels then what had been occurring in the late 1990s and early in the 2000s.

We would undoubtedly have more deer over much of the state today if those herd reductions had started years earlier before the deer herds so severally damaged their winter food supplies. Just because you refuse to accept the real facts of habitat and environmental variables or how they affect deer densities certainly doesn’t mean more knowledgeable people can’t or shouldn’t understand them.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

That is just pure unadulterated nonsense!!! In 1993 we had the worst winter in the last 50 years with record snowfall, record low temperature and a record 90 days of continuous snow cover. Yet in 1994 we still harvested 157K buck and 238K doe and that was followed by a buck harvest of 182K doe and 248 K doe. The simple fact is that if we didn't have 5 or 6 years when the harvest exceeded recruitment the herd would have continued to increase to over 2M PS deer and the herd would have still been below the MSY carrying capacity of the habitat

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Though the 1993 had a lot of snow it was not continuous and there was a break in the middle where the snow melted off before the next snow fall, at least in this part of the state. It was also just one year of snow, following a good mast crop and several years when hunter deer harvests had been increased allowing for better over winter deer habitat.

Even though deer populations can be adversely impacted from one harsh winter they usually aren’t and recover very quickly from just one bad winter. It is when you have two or more consecutive harsh winter when the deer are forced to use the limited wintering grounds habitats that deer population declines really become noticeable to the hunters. That is especially true following a series of years when harvests have been low and the deer used up their winter food supplies all summer, which is exactly what occurred prior to the 2002 winter. Then when the winter 2003 arrived and once again forced the deer into the already ravished wintering grounds the stage was set for a major deer population crash with several years of reduced deer numbers and poor fawn recruitment.

You might not like those facts but denying them is nothing more then refusing to learn from the past and from natures lessons.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Wasn't like that out my window so I say its bunk, ecoweenie commie propaganda.;)

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

Yea and how did the PGC biologists respond when it came to setting anterless allocations in 2G and 3A the following 2 seasons?[:-] How did the DCNR respond when it came to allocating DMAP tags for the following 2 seasons? We hear this talk about population crashes, but we didn't see no response to these crashes. What's up with that?

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

It is really ad that you even have to lie about the weather to support your misguided agenda, There was no mid winter thaw in 1993, that happened in 1995 and in 1995 we had late winter snows that extended the snow cover longer than normal.
That is absolutely pure nonsense since the PGC data shows that the herd in 2G had been reduced to 15 DPSM by 1999 and was lower than that by 2003. At 15 DPSM the herd was 25 DPSM below the MSY CC of the habitat of 40 DPSM. IMHO the average spike buck knows more about deer management than you will ever know.

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

It must be time for bed ole bb is almost sounding right

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

was needed sproul;)

RE: Hey RSB, How Much Would This Cost a GUY?
 

good nite.
:)