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RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

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t isn’t even a question of the Game Commission allowing or not allowing more deer. The number of deer is determined by the ability of the food supply to sustain more or fewer deer day after day all year long and that is very flexible based on a multitude of variables within reality. That is how nature works. You nor the Game Commission can change that fact no matter what you are anyone else thinks should be happening.

That is about the most ignorant statement you have ever made. The DD goals the PGC used from 1980 to 2003 were based on 50% of the max. CC of forested habitat and that resulted in a statewide average of 21 DPFSM or 13 DPSM. If the herd was allowed to increase to the MSY carrying capacity of all the habitat ,most of the state would have well over 50 DPSM.

RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

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ORIGINAL: DougE

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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

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ORIGINAL: R.S.B.

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ORIGINAL: bluebird2

Now you are just being silly ,because you can not provide one bit of evidence that shows SFLs have lower DDs than SGLs.

We both know that the biodiversity CC of northern hardwoods is only 8 DPSM and that 40 DPSM is the MSY CC. But in 2G where the herd is being managed at around 8-9 DPSM the forest health is still rated poor the the amount of regeneration is decreasing rather than increasing.

Actually you don’t know that at all and are doing nothing more then taking some EXTREMELY general information about a very few habitat and deer densities studies and trying to apply that on a large scale.

Your generalizations in the application of the limited subject research are simply not an accurate representation of reality within any of the various units of management.

In other words you simply have no idea what you are talking about most of the time. You are proving that wildlife and habitat management are simply beyond your capacity of knowledge and understanding.

R.S. Bodenhorn

LMAO, RSB!!!!! You just stole a page from the PGC's SOP manual on the HR fiasco and actually tried to use it on someone else! Take very general statements/ research from a few localized habitats and write an extermination order for deer statewide based on it. That was a beautiful synopsis of the PGC basis for HR and the current deer plan, and I actually couldn't have said it better myself. Much appreciated.;)Still LMAO!

OK,just a few localized habitats were negatively overbrowsed by deer.That there is funny.then again,it;s not surprising coming from a guy that expects a kid to be able to kill a buck every year on opening day by noon,most likely from the same stand as well.

Ah, you misquote me again, Mr Twister. I said "not unreasonable", not EXPECTED. The fact that many hundreds of PA hunters had faithful stands that produced year after year, I believe would define that as "reasonable." But I guess we should all remember that you for one, claimed that the hunting sucked in your areas during the 80's. Sorry you never learned to scout a productive stand site and take advantage of opening day hunter movement. Still miffed cause TBass went on your little tour and didn't buy into the garbage you preached at him?:(Should have tucked your pruning shears into your back pocket so you could create some better browse lines before hand.

RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

I haven't had to hunt for a buck on the first day of rifle season in over 17 years because I've killed a buck witha bow for the past 17 years strait.I'm pretty good onpicking stand sites.In fact,I'm so good that I haven't killed a deer from the same satnd in conseutives years since Iwas a kid.

What didn't he buy into and what was garbage.I showed him an exclosure that had a couple deer in it.Interestingly enough,every single oak seedling in that exclosure was browsed down.He took pictures to prove it.I also showed him an area with a low deer density that was cut on a high ridgtop.Not surprisingly,the regeneration was fantastic and proved that the deer numbers not the acid rain or soil conditions were the limiting factor.He took pictures to prove that as well.So tell me,why should I be miffed?EverythingI showed himhas backed up everything I've been saying for years.

RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

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ORIGINAL: bluebird2

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The number of deer that should or could be available is just your opinion which obviously isn’t supported by the deer themselves.

The reason the Game Commission stopped using those old deer density estimates, as the management objective, was because they were nether accurate or reliable.

The deer and their habitat just keep proving how little you know about deer, deer food or how each affects the other. Thankfully we have professionals in this state that are a lot more in tone with how nature really works then what you are. Listening to people like you is what got things so messed up and out of balance and to the point we can’t support more deer then we have today.

We are on the road to recovery though provided the professionals can hold the people like you at bay so they can’t ruin even more of the state’s deer habitat.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

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ORIGINAL: bluebird2

Try again!!!

Tomorrow is Wednesday, maybe if you eat all of your green beans they will take you for a short ride, if they do you might see a deer.[&:]

Enjoy it it might be your last.[:o]

RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

That may very well make his day.;)

RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

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ORIGINAL: bawanajim

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ORIGINAL: bluebird2

Try again!!!

Tomorrow is Wednesday, maybe if you eat all of your green beans they will take you for a short ride, if they do you might see a deer.[&:]

Enjoy it it might be your last.[:o]

Obviously you don't know beans or you wouldn't make such a non sensical comment.:)

RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

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ORIGINAL: DougE

I haven't had to hunt for a buck on the first day of rifle season in over 17 years because I've killed a buck witha bow for the past 17 years strait.I'm pretty good onpicking stand sites.In fact,I'm so good that I haven't killed a deer from the same satnd in conseutives years since Iwas a kid.

What didn't he buy into and what was garbage.I showed him an exclosure that had a couple deer in it.Interestingly enough,every single oak seedling in that exclosure was browsed down.He took pictures to prove it.I also showed him an area with a low deer density that was cut on a high ridgtop.Not surprisingly,the regeneration was fantastic and proved that the deer numbers not the acid rain or soil conditions were the limiting factor.He took pictures to prove that as well.So tell me,why should I be miffed?EverythingI showed himhas backed up everything I've been saying for years.

LMAO,...Toot, toot, toot!!!!! I believe you've got your panties in a bunch, because while you obviously showed him the exclosure with the exaggerated browsing impact due to the trapped deer inside, and a well drained ridgetop with adequate sunlight, you have been saying forever that if we would just go and look at the "devastation" with you some time we will all be believers. Well, our buddy just didn't want to put on the skirt and wave the pom poms after all, did he? Sorry to burst your bubble, there.:D And don't you find it the least bit ironic that a guy who claims a 17 year buck killing streak with his bow (Probably all on public land in 2g, with the lowest DD in the state, and never any time to hunt,I might add) thinks that bagging a deer before noon with a high powered rifle on opening day of firearms season from a good stand for a string of several years is unreasonable? Are you really that dense or is this your attempt at comedy?

RE: Whats wrong with the gamelands?

First of all Jake,When Ihadn't checked that exclosure out in about two years.It was a shelterwood cut and I wanted to show him exactly why they do it.the last time I was there,it was loaded with oak regeneration.Now,the little oak that is left,has been hedged almost to the ground.I'm not sure what yo think it shows but I know that it proves,the deer single handedly altered that area forever.That's exactly what happened all accross the northern tier.The pictures prove it and your misguided attempts to discredit me just make you look more clueless.The other pictures were ofanother shelterwood cut that was unfenced.It's coming back now because the dd is very low there.Interestingly,I also showed him some areasunder a closed canopy that were starting to devlop a nice mid level understory.He took pictures of those areas as well.I wonder why he didn't post them with a caption?You're not bursting my bubble chief.No one has been able to refute the validity of those pictures.The more you tried,the more foolish and clueless it became obvious you were.

Yes I do think it's unreasonable for any stand to produce year after year on opening day for several years.I adapt to the current conditions and that's why I'm successful and you continue to whine and cry about the lack of deer.