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How Is This Possible?
If our forests have been over browsed since 1928 ,resulting in inadequate regeneration, how can PA be the leading producer of quality hardwoods.
Pennsylvania Forest Products Association No matter where you live in Pennsylvania, you aren't far from a beautiful forest. Our forests provide a multitude of products that we use in everyday life, an essential economic benefit to the Commonwealth, recreational and tourism opportunities, as well as providing habitat for wildlife. Pennsylvania is the largest producer of hardwoods in the country, accounting for 10% of the total hardwood output in the US. Revenues from Pennsylvania's forest products industry exceed $5.5 billion annually. Approximately 90,000 Pennsylvanians make a livelihood on the industry. Over 10% of the state's manufacturing workforce is involved in the forest products industry. There are over 3,000 separate businesses involved in the forest products industry, with a presence in every county of the Commonwealth. Every dollar paid to a timber owner for trees ultimately generates, through manufacturing, more than $17 worth of economic growth. More than half of Pennsylvania - about 17 million acres - is forest. Our forests are increasing in size. The Federal Forest Inventory shows 20% growth in the last decade. The majority of Pennsylvania's forests, about 70%, are privately owned, including 5% held by forest products companies. Approximately 30% of the forests are government owned. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
Thats a good ? Maybe ask the PGC!
Hatchet Jack |
RE: How Is This Possible?
Just a thought - being 1st does not reflect any % of actual potential.
Just means it is the highest producer of total bf of hardwoods. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
The actual potential for the production of hardwoods would only be achieved if the state was 100% forested. Therefore we will never know what the full potential might be.
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RE: How Is This Possible?
So that makes the rankings even less relevant in discussing forest health.
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RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: bluebird2 If our forests have been over browsed since 1928 ,resulting in inadequate regeneration, how can PA be the leading producer of quality hardwoods. Pennsylvania Forest Products Association No matter where you live in Pennsylvania, you aren't far from a beautiful forest. Our forests provide a multitude of products that we use in everyday life, an essential economic benefit to the Commonwealth, recreational and tourism opportunities, as well as providing habitat for wildlife. Pennsylvania is the largest producer of hardwoods in the country, accounting for 10% of the total hardwood output in the US. Revenues from Pennsylvania's forest products industry exceed $5.5 billion annually. Approximately 90,000 Pennsylvanians make a livelihood on the industry. Over 10% of the state's manufacturing workforce is involved in the forest products industry. There are over 3,000 separate businesses involved in the forest products industry, with a presence in every county of the Commonwealth. Every dollar paid to a timber owner for trees ultimately generates, through manufacturing, more than $17 worth of economic growth. More than half of Pennsylvania - about 17 million acres - is forest. Our forests are increasing in size. The Federal Forest Inventory shows 20% growth in the last decade. The majority of Pennsylvania's forests, about 70%, are privately owned, including 5% held by forest products companies. Approximately 30% of the forests are government owned. Because the mature forests of today got there start back in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s after the deer had been nearly extirpated from the state. Pennsylvania had to stock deer after the forests were nearly all clear-cut. But, the forests were well on their way to regenerating to lush new growth because there were no deer to affect the new forests until after 1906 when the first fifty deer were stocked in the state, (Elk and Cameron Counties I believe). Over the next nineteen years a total of 1,192 were stocked across the northern tier and south central mountains of the state in order to once again have established deer populations. 1906 - Deer first stocked (50 from Michigan). A total 1,192 were purchased and released by the agency from 1906 to 1925. http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=460&Q=174562& Therefore, the forests that are providing today’s forest resources got established before there were high deer populations or in many cases even low deer populations that could prevent them from regenerating. That is today’s forest/wildlife history lesson. R.S. Bodenhorn |
RE: How Is This Possible?
Therefore, the forests that are providing today’s forest resources got established before there were high deer populations or in many cases even low deer populations that could prevent them from regenerating. That is today’s forest/wildlife history lesson. According to DCNR a mature northern hardwood is 80-100 years old ,which is why they harvest 1%/yr. That means the 100 yr/ old oak that is cut today was a seedling in 1928 ,when there was so many deer the PGC closed buck season and only allowed the harvest of antlerless deer. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: SteveBNy So that makes the rankings even less relevant in discussing forest health.  Exactly!, which should end discussion but probably won't. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: SteveBNy So that makes the rankings even less relevant in discussing forest health. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: bluebird2 Therefore, the forests that are providing today’s forest resources got established before there were high deer populations or in many cases even low deer populations that could prevent them from regenerating. That is today’s forest/wildlife history lesson. According to DCNR a mature northern hardwood is 80-100 years old ,which is why they harvest 1%/yr. That means the 100 yr/ old oak that is cut today was a seedling in 1928 ,when there was so many deer the PGC closed buck season and only allowed the harvest of antlerless deer. It isn’t me who is confused. What you are proving is that you either have no idea what you are talking about or are simply once again trying to mislead people not smart enough to know better. But, then that is your usual method of operation isn’t it? Even though it takes 80-100 years to grow a mature forest that certainly doesn’t mean the mature trees all falls down at the end of that 100 years if they aren’t harvested. Our forests, in most of this state, are more then that 80-100 years old mark. The problem is that cutting all of the trees that are mature at one time would put us right back to the level of forest and wildlife management ignorance that occurred the last time they did. Another part of the problem has been, and still is in many areas, that when they do cut the present mature forest an over abundant deer herd hasn’t allowed new trees to regenerate to replace the past forest. That too is a stupid situation and only an equally stupid, or seriously misguided, person would what that to problem to continue into the future. R.S. Bodenhorn |
RE: How Is This Possible?
Even though it takes 80-100 years to grow a mature forest that certainly doesn’t mean the mature trees all falls down at the end of that 100 years if they aren’t harvested. Our forests, in most of this state, are more then that 80-100 years old mark. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: bluebird2 Even though it takes 80-100 years to grow a mature forest that certainly doesn’t mean the mature trees all falls down at the end of that 100 years if they aren’t harvested. Our forests, in most of this state, are more then that 80-100 years old mark. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
The same old crap from Professor BB.[/align]
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RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: thndrchiken ORIGINAL: bluebird2 Even though it takes 80-100 years to grow a mature forest that certainly doesn’t mean the mature trees all falls down at the end of that 100 years if they aren’t harvested. Our forests, in most of this state, are more then that 80-100 years old mark. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
What blkpowder,no smart reply ?????
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RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: fellas2 What blkpowder,no smart reply ????? |
RE: How Is This Possible?
The proof is on the DCNR website where it provides the history of our forests. If RSB would have read it he wouldn't make such ridiculous claims.
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RE: How Is This Possible?
"So I guess that makes you more knowledgeable about the subject than a trained conservationist like Rob. So tell us where did you get your extensive knowledge and training from?"
Lets keep things in their proper perspective. RSB is a GAME WARDEN....a WCO.... NOT a biologist. And yes, Id say bb is far more educated on the topic. Ive witnessed his referencing just about every piece of pgc data that can be addressed at one time or another for nearly a decade and on several boards, and its absolutely hilarious to see the absolute LEAST educated people on the topic attempt to discredit him , the ones who dont even add to the conversation, just insult because they arent intellectual or educated on the topic enough to compile even a decent arguement to back their position that wouldnt be torn apart in about 10 seconds with the actual facts of the matter.! Now, gotta get back to work, have a fine evening fellows. LMAO.;) |
RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: blkpowder ORIGINAL: fellas2 What blkpowder,no smart reply ????? I won't call it a smart answer,but an informative answer. BB's claim is that he worked for the DNCR for 28 yrs.I've worked with people who had 30+yrs at their job and they still don't have a clue about their job.[/align] [/align]As for his history reading. Just like back in school. Regardless of the subject.The class was given a specific chapter or chapters to read then tested on. After the tests,some passed and some failed. The reasons for the failures. Some didn't read the assignment,some kinda skipped read through and for some,they interpret totally opposite of what they are reading right in front of them.[/align] [/align]So just as BB's so often statements,where's the proof he knows what he is talking about?[/align] According to U.S. Forest Service inventories, forest areas are actually increasing in Pennsylvania. Forest area throughout the Commonwealth is currently at its highest level since the late nineteenth century. In the heavily populated Southeast, forestland increased more than 6 percent between 1978 and 1989. Likewise, it increased 4.5 percent in the Northeast and 3 percent in the West. Even in the Poconos, an area of rapid population growth, total forestland increased 1 percent. Today, about 60 percent of Pennsylvania is forested. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
So blkpowder , using your reasoning,then is it not possible for your "good buddy" RSB, to be as totally incompetent and ignorant on the subject as BB ??? Just because he's been a game warden(sorry WCO) for you politically correct generation,for all these years does not necessarily make him an authority on the subject !
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RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: fellas2 So blkpowder , using your reasoning,then is it not possible for your "good buddy" RSB, to be as totally incompetent and ignorant on the subject as BB ??? Just because he's been a game warden(sorry WCO) for you politically correct generation,for all these years does not necessarily make him an authority on the subject ! |
RE: How Is This Possible?
Here are a few links to the history of the northern tier forests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegheny_National_Forest http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/23488 http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_rm/rm_gtr267/rm_gtr267_079_086.pdf R.S. Bodenhorn |
RE: How Is This Possible?
Thanks for proving once again that I was right and you had no idea what you were talking about.
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RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: bluebird2 Thanks for proving once again that I was right and you had no idea what you were talking about. How so?? |
RE: How Is This Possible?
Our forests, in most of this state, are more then that 80-100 years old mark. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
ORIGINAL: bluebird2 Thanks for proving once again that I was right and you had no idea what you were talking about. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
There was no need to twist the data because the data supports my position and refutes RSB's opinion.
In 1993,75 percent of the forest land base on the ANF con- tained stands between 60 and 110 years of age (U.S. Department of Agriculture Allegheny National Forest 1993). That means the majority of the trees in ANF were less than 100 years old,since the older trees are usually the first to be harvested. Furthermore the links RSB provided were limited to the ANF and do not represent the conditions in the rest of the state where the amount of forest land increased after 1928. |
RE: How Is This Possible?
The fact is the position of Pa in hardwood production is based on the total bf being cut - and not on the health of the forest.
A large enough"unhealthy" forest can yeild enough to be #1. The only reason you tried to link the two was to rerun the same old tired thread for probably the 50th time. Steve |
RE: How Is This Possible?
According to the PGC , a forests health is based on it's ability to regenerate. Since our forested areas have been increasing since 1928,instead of decreasing, the forest had to be pretty healthy despite the claims by the PGC regarding over browsing.
Furthermore,deer are not the only cause for the lack of regeneration in ANF. Managers are particularly concerned about the implications of these declines for forest regenera- tion. In some places, the increased light reaching the forest floor as a result of the recent defoliations and crown dieback has resulted in increased establishment and growth of tree seedlings. Only 8 percent of the stands in the 12,000-acre sample had adequate tree regeneration, including shade- tolerant saplings of sufficient health to leave as part of a new stand. But in many places, the benefi- ciaries of increased light have been ferns, grasses, and sedges, and as mortality removes trees that could provide seed for natural tree regeneration, the management challenges increase. More than 70 percent of the stands in the 12,000-acre sample had fern understory stocking in excess of 30 percent, the level associated with interference with regen- eration establishment (Marquis and others 1992). Allegheny National Forest managers commonly use intensive silvicultural practices-including herbicides, fencing, aerial fertilization of estab- lished seedlings, and individual tree seedling protectors-to overcome the barriers to natural regeneration. In addition, managers are working with scientists to identify appropriate management strategies for declining stands that do not require regeneration treatments. species. |
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