Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
01-31-2009, 07:56 AM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
Everyone wants to see the PGC audit completed right?
Guess who is causing the delay??? yep the good old USP!!
You gotta wonder why the USP wouldn't want to see the audit completed............
http://www.paoutdoornews.com/articles/2009/01/29/top_news/news01.txt
Copied and pasted from PA outdoor news
Deer audit delay to
freeze license hike
[/align][/align]
By Jeff Mulhollem
Editor
Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:13 PM CST
[/align]Harrisburg - An independent audit of the Pennsylvania Game Commission's deer-management program has been postponed, according to a key lawmaker, and that will result in a delay of the passage of a hunting-license fee increase.
The audit, which was to have started in March, will not proceed because the company that had agreed to do it, Wildlife Management Institute of Virginia, backed away from the project because it feared being drawn into a lawsuit filed against the Game Commission by the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania.
Rep. Ed Staback, D-Lackawanna and Wayne counties, chairman of the House Game and Fisheries Committee, met with Unified leaders late last year and asked the organization to drop the suit to expedite the audit. But they refused to abandoned their challenge to the agency's deer-herd-reduction strategy.
"Their continuing with the lawsuit certainly is going to delay the audit, and the audit being delayed is definitely going to delay the license increase," he said. "I will not start the hunting-license fee-increase process until an audit is under way, but I may not be adverse to negotiating about an increase before then.
[/align]"We can work out the details while the audit is being done.
"But having said all of that, I don't see a hunting license fee increase taking effect until 2010 at the earliest," Staback added. "I just can't see everything that needs to be done occurring before July. And my committee members and I will need to see the results of the audit before voting for any license-fee increase."
Revenue from the license-fee increase - which might boost the cost of an adult resident license from $20 to $32, according to Staback - is seen as vital to the Game Commission. The agency has cut many programs, such as pheasant rearing and stocking,
Still Steve Mohr, a former game commissioner and president of the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania, remains defiant.
"We told him (Staback) we couldn't drop the lawsuit because we didn't have the support from our members," he said. "Our membership is vehemently opposed to dropping it because we see no reason that the audit couldn't proceed with our lawsuit."
Regarding delay of a hunting- license fee increase, Mohr scoffed. "I don't think that there are many legislators foolish enough to vote for a hunting-license fee increase now with the state budget in the condition it is," he said. "I don't think a license fee increase is necessary anyway. The commission is sitting on so much natural-gas revenue under the game lands that they ought to be paying us for getting hunting licenses."
Mohr is "irritated" by Game Commission officials' declaration to Staback that they would not "cooperate" with an audit unless the lawsuit was withdrawn. "They shouldn't have that option," he said. "I can't believe Staback is letting them get away with it."
Mohr pointed out that the Unified Sportsmen pledged not to bring Wildlife Institute into its lawsuit, but Staback indicated that was not good enough. "If the lawsuit is being delayed, it is not the fault of the Unified Sportsmen, it is the fault of the lawmakers," he said.
"There is no financial crisis here. The PGC is a wealthy agency, it's just they don't want to reveal their wealth at this time. They aren't fooling anyone - the legislators are very skeptical."
Staback was noncommittal about the seriousness of the Game Commission's financial plight, but he did say he was disappointed that the Unified Sportsmen will not withdraw their lawsuit to let the audit proceed.
"The answers about deer management that the Unifieds are looking for are the same ones the Legislature is seeking," he said. "So now we will wait and see how long it will take the courts to react to their suit.
"But it's not a question of if, but when a deer audit will take place," Staback added. "The only way this issue is ever going to be resolved to hunters' satisfaction is by an independent audit of the commission's management program. This has been dragging on for years."
[/align]
Guess who is causing the delay??? yep the good old USP!!
You gotta wonder why the USP wouldn't want to see the audit completed............
http://www.paoutdoornews.com/articles/2009/01/29/top_news/news01.txt
Copied and pasted from PA outdoor news
Deer audit delay to
freeze license hike
[/align][/align]
By Jeff Mulhollem
Editor
Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:13 PM CST
[/align]Harrisburg - An independent audit of the Pennsylvania Game Commission's deer-management program has been postponed, according to a key lawmaker, and that will result in a delay of the passage of a hunting-license fee increase.
The audit, which was to have started in March, will not proceed because the company that had agreed to do it, Wildlife Management Institute of Virginia, backed away from the project because it feared being drawn into a lawsuit filed against the Game Commission by the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania.
Rep. Ed Staback, D-Lackawanna and Wayne counties, chairman of the House Game and Fisheries Committee, met with Unified leaders late last year and asked the organization to drop the suit to expedite the audit. But they refused to abandoned their challenge to the agency's deer-herd-reduction strategy.
"Their continuing with the lawsuit certainly is going to delay the audit, and the audit being delayed is definitely going to delay the license increase," he said. "I will not start the hunting-license fee-increase process until an audit is under way, but I may not be adverse to negotiating about an increase before then.
[/align]"We can work out the details while the audit is being done.
"But having said all of that, I don't see a hunting license fee increase taking effect until 2010 at the earliest," Staback added. "I just can't see everything that needs to be done occurring before July. And my committee members and I will need to see the results of the audit before voting for any license-fee increase."
Revenue from the license-fee increase - which might boost the cost of an adult resident license from $20 to $32, according to Staback - is seen as vital to the Game Commission. The agency has cut many programs, such as pheasant rearing and stocking,
Still Steve Mohr, a former game commissioner and president of the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania, remains defiant.
"We told him (Staback) we couldn't drop the lawsuit because we didn't have the support from our members," he said. "Our membership is vehemently opposed to dropping it because we see no reason that the audit couldn't proceed with our lawsuit."
Regarding delay of a hunting- license fee increase, Mohr scoffed. "I don't think that there are many legislators foolish enough to vote for a hunting-license fee increase now with the state budget in the condition it is," he said. "I don't think a license fee increase is necessary anyway. The commission is sitting on so much natural-gas revenue under the game lands that they ought to be paying us for getting hunting licenses."
Mohr is "irritated" by Game Commission officials' declaration to Staback that they would not "cooperate" with an audit unless the lawsuit was withdrawn. "They shouldn't have that option," he said. "I can't believe Staback is letting them get away with it."
Mohr pointed out that the Unified Sportsmen pledged not to bring Wildlife Institute into its lawsuit, but Staback indicated that was not good enough. "If the lawsuit is being delayed, it is not the fault of the Unified Sportsmen, it is the fault of the lawmakers," he said.
"There is no financial crisis here. The PGC is a wealthy agency, it's just they don't want to reveal their wealth at this time. They aren't fooling anyone - the legislators are very skeptical."
Staback was noncommittal about the seriousness of the Game Commission's financial plight, but he did say he was disappointed that the Unified Sportsmen will not withdraw their lawsuit to let the audit proceed.
"The answers about deer management that the Unifieds are looking for are the same ones the Legislature is seeking," he said. "So now we will wait and see how long it will take the courts to react to their suit.
"But it's not a question of if, but when a deer audit will take place," Staback added. "The only way this issue is ever going to be resolved to hunters' satisfaction is by an independent audit of the commission's management program. This has been dragging on for years."
[/align]
01-31-2009, 08:31 AM
#2
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Posts: 2,978
RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
1. Why should usp drop a lawsuit they started and spent much effort an money on?
2. This is old news. A prior article told the tale. Pgc ALSO said "they would be reluctant to cooperate with an audit while the lawsuit was ongoing.
WIn win for pgc.Holding that position they get out of the lawsuit if pgcdrops it, and theyget out of the audit at least for some time, if they dont.
Some pgc supporters/insiders over at hpa had stated that pgc didnt wantto have thingsdivulged in an audit that usp could use against them in an audit. IF they had nothing to hide, what in the world could usp use against them if it didnt exist? (LOL)
As for the company backing out, I cannot blame them. Would be VERY awkward to have to work closely with a completely unwilling to cooperate agency at pgc. I dont believewmi had much choice.
2. This is old news. A prior article told the tale. Pgc ALSO said "they would be reluctant to cooperate with an audit while the lawsuit was ongoing.
WIn win for pgc.Holding that position they get out of the lawsuit if pgcdrops it, and theyget out of the audit at least for some time, if they dont.
Some pgc supporters/insiders over at hpa had stated that pgc didnt wantto have thingsdivulged in an audit that usp could use against them in an audit. IF they had nothing to hide, what in the world could usp use against them if it didnt exist? (LOL)
As for the company backing out, I cannot blame them. Would be VERY awkward to have to work closely with a completely unwilling to cooperate agency at pgc. I dont believewmi had much choice.
01-31-2009, 09:29 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
1. Why should usp drop a lawsuit they started and spent much effort an money on?
2. This is old news. A prior article told the tale. Pgc ALSO said "they would be reluctant to cooperate with an audit while the lawsuit was ongoing.
WIn win for pgc.Holding that position they get out of the lawsuit if pgcdrops it, and theyget out of the audit at least for some time, if they dont.
Some pgc supporters/insiders over at hpa had stated that pgc didnt wantto have thingsdivulged in an audit that usp could use against them in an audit. IF they had nothing to hide, what in the world could usp use against them if it didnt exist? (LOL)
As for the company backing out, I cannot blame them. Would be VERY awkward to have to work closely with a completely unwilling to cooperate agency at pgc. I dont believewmi had much choice.
1. Why should usp drop a lawsuit they started and spent much effort an money on?
2. This is old news. A prior article told the tale. Pgc ALSO said "they would be reluctant to cooperate with an audit while the lawsuit was ongoing.
WIn win for pgc.Holding that position they get out of the lawsuit if pgcdrops it, and theyget out of the audit at least for some time, if they dont.
Some pgc supporters/insiders over at hpa had stated that pgc didnt wantto have thingsdivulged in an audit that usp could use against them in an audit. IF they had nothing to hide, what in the world could usp use against them if it didnt exist? (LOL)
As for the company backing out, I cannot blame them. Would be VERY awkward to have to work closely with a completely unwilling to cooperate agency at pgc. I dont believewmi had much choice.
01-31-2009, 09:53 AM
#5
Spike
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 79
RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
You gotta catch up on things there BTB. Thats ol news. I said something to that effect to you on another thread and you did,nt reply. Get another company that isnt afraid of a lawsuit too do the audit. Tell me what could WMI find that the USP could use in a lawsuit just 1 thing.
01-31-2009, 10:04 AM
#6
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Posts: 2,978
RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
Btb, its all a matter of perspective. If pgc doesnt want to do both at one time because of the lawsuit, as theyve admitted,and you or anyone else chooses to blame usp for it, your entitled to do so. I think its unfounded myself.
Are some mad that usp won't step down to continue with the audit? Maybe, but its generally strong pgc supporters who hate usp anyway.
I personally couldnt care less about usp, but do think that I would like to see what if anything could come of the lawsuit. I dont think they will win what they are asking for, but that doesnt mean that things beneficial cannot be had from the whole deal.
Are some mad that usp won't step down to continue with the audit? Maybe, but its generally strong pgc supporters who hate usp anyway.
I personally couldnt care less about usp, but do think that I would like to see what if anything could come of the lawsuit. I dont think they will win what they are asking for, but that doesnt mean that things beneficial cannot be had from the whole deal.
01-31-2009, 10:10 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
ORIGINAL: TWOWITHONE
You gotta catch up on things there BTB. Thats ol news. I said something to that effect to you on another thread and you did,nt reply. Get another company that isnt afraid of a lawsuit too do the audit. Tell me what could WMI find that the USP could use in a lawsuit just 1 thing.
You gotta catch up on things there BTB. Thats ol news. I said something to that effect to you on another thread and you did,nt reply. Get another company that isnt afraid of a lawsuit too do the audit. Tell me what could WMI find that the USP could use in a lawsuit just 1 thing.
BTW it took quite a long while for this auditing firm to be selected. And where exactly are we gonna find another firm that won't have the same fears?
Maybe you need to catch up on the state of the legal world.
01-31-2009, 10:18 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
Btb, its all a matter of perspective. If pgc doesnt want to do both at one time because of the lawsuit, as they've admitted,and you or anyone else chooses to blame usp for it, your entitled to do so. I think its unfounded myself.
Perhaps something good would come from the lawsuit. I've heardsome USP membersimply that the USP actually generated the audit singlehandedly. Clearly the audit will shed light where some beleive things were dark. Clearly the audit can not hurt and can only help those who want the real truth to come out. The USP suits demands are completely unrealisticand I think most rational hunters who have read it agree with that. So why is the USP standing in the way?
01-31-2009, 10:52 AM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
I agree that it could be argued either way. remember though, that it was Staback that first said it. Thiswould one of very few things that I agree with him on. Again, Staback is no real friend to the hunters or the PGC IMHO. He is the consumate "which way is the wind blowing" politician
Perhaps something good would come from the lawsuit. I've heardsome USP membersimply that the USP actually generated the audit singlehandedly. Clearly the audit will shed light where some beleive things were dark. Clearly the audit can not hurt and can only help those who want the real truth to come out. The USP suits demands are completely unrealisticand I think most rational hunters who have read it agree with that. So why is the USP standing in the way?
Btb, its all a matter of perspective. If pgc doesnt want to do both at one time because of the lawsuit, as they've admitted,and you or anyone else chooses to blame usp for it, your entitled to do so. I think its unfounded myself.
Perhaps something good would come from the lawsuit. I've heardsome USP membersimply that the USP actually generated the audit singlehandedly. Clearly the audit will shed light where some beleive things were dark. Clearly the audit can not hurt and can only help those who want the real truth to come out. The USP suits demands are completely unrealisticand I think most rational hunters who have read it agree with that. So why is the USP standing in the way?
BOB,why not e-mail them and ask them that question,then report back to us
01-31-2009, 11:14 AM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 2G Gaines Pa
Posts: 524
RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
The lawsuit and the crossbow vote are both justclassic examples of the bad that comes from a wildlife management entity that refuses to put any value on hunter input. I don't blame the USP for any of this. The blame lays squarely on the PGCs and WMIs shoulders.
