RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

Only a fool that knows little or nothing about deer management would make that claim. Both productivity and forest regeneration is lower in 2F than in 2G yet the PGC is managing 2F at a density that is almost twice that in 2G. That is totally irrational and makes absolutely no sense.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

This is a prime example of why we need smaller wmu's.
2F habitat varies greater than you would think.
It goes the gamut. I hunt the poorer soiled areas btw.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

How interspersed with privateland is the forest, when comparing 2f and 2g?

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

Smaller WMUs are not the answer. The answer is managing the herd based on the true carrying capacity of the habitat rather than the regeneration of commercially valuable trees. The MSY carrying capacity of northern hardwoods is over 40 DPSM. Even if the herd was managed at half that level ,hunting in 2F and 2G would be much better than it is now.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

first two sentences are agreeable bb

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

Always glad to see we can agree on some things. Now if BTB ,Livbucks and RSB to agree we would really be making some progress.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

we tried to get them, livbucks but DCNR figured that ole sproul and boys would not kill off all deer.

so, they came out with these big WMU so elk county boys would come to clinton and clean out doe sproul left go.

thats what was behind it.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

bluebird,that is question too.

how do we know how many deer can a dpsm hold in clinton county.
we had no acorns this year.

i was out in woods filling feeders sat, you can see long ways in woods , there is no browse.

i cant believe i am saying that but you know i tell truth of what i see.

i then see fields that could have deer feed planted for deer too.

but even with lack of browse, how do we know how many deer should be in that dpsm.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

As I have said before I always credited you with being more intelligent then what you are displaying. I seriously don’t know if I have given you more credit then you deserve or if you are just trying to mislead people once again.

When you measure the health of the deer (the productive rates of adult does and the breeding rates for the juvenile does) you are measuring all of the habitat those deer live on, farm land, forest land or any where they feed. Therefore your claim that all habitat isn’t measured is incorrect and misleading at the least.

As for the habitat health where do you think it should be measured besides the forest? Should they measure how much corn the farmers planted? Perhaps the height of the hay fields? How about the number of shrubs planted in the housing developments of neighborhood gardens? Of course the place to measure habitat health is in the forest and I can imagine anyone with half a of a logical thought thinking otherwise. Those farm fields and neighborhood gardens are not managed to feed deer. In fact in many cases they can’t feed deer when they have two or three feet of snow covering them. In some years the only habitat that will consistently deer feed is the woody browse so that is what gets measured to determine how the deer food is fairing in the picture of habitat health.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

Thank you for admitting that the habitat in 2F is worse than the habitat in 2G since the doe in 2F produce 1.34 embryos/doe while in 2G the doe produce 1.66 embryos /doe. So forest health and herd health in 2F are both worse than in 2G yet the PGC is managing the herd in 2F at almost twice that of 2G . Thanks for proving I am right and you are ,WRONG AGAIN!

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

bb were you ever a salesman?

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

i would be the worst salesman in the world. i would want to sell everything for what I thought it was worth and that would mean i would go broke over night. I turn candle holders,plant stands and vases and make walnut coffee table and I don't make a nickel because I sell them for what i would want to pay rather than for what they are worth in man hours.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

That goes against all that is American and smacks more of the old hippy Nirvana mentality.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

No one said the food supply wasn’t worse per individual deer in unit 2F, it very well could be. In fact, both the deer and habitat indicate that is probably true.

That still doesn’t negate the fact that the over all habitat in unit 2F can and has been able to support more deer per square mile then unit 2G.

Just because you don’t like or understand the facts doesn’t make them any less fact.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

Since you admit that is true ,why hasn't the PGC reduced the herd in 2F to the same DD as in 2G? That has been my question from day one and you just admitted I was right.
But that is only because the the PGC hasn't issued enough doe tags to reduce the herd in 2F to the same DD as in 2G . therefore you have admitted the PGC is mismanaging the herd in 2F.

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

I don’t know if your that seriously reading deficient,playingstupidor just being misleading again, but I never said any of what you are implying.

I explained in the first time, the second time and third, apparently you just aren’t bright enough to understand.

The deer totally of the 2F habitat supports more deer then the totality of the 2G habitat.

I do expect the ANF to issue DMAP again this year, after failing to do so the past two years, so that should help do just what you think should be done. And, yes I fully agree that we need to harvest more deer in many if not most parts of unit 2F. I’ve been saying that all along. I think we should harvest more in 2G too. Now how do you like that?

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

But if the PGC didn't allow the over harvest of doe in 2G , it would support as many if not more deer than 2F. You are a total imbecile if you don't recognize that the antlerless allocations are controlling the herd in both WMUs ,and that it is the PGC that is determining how many deer there are in each wmu .

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

"I think we should harvest more in 2G too. Now how do you like that?"

I heard pgcwhere gonna double the 2G allocation.Decision was based on the science of seeing a doe in a neighboring wmuwithin 3 miles of the 2 G border.:D

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

Thats almost as silly as the USP demanding that we close doe hunting completely till there's a miniature deer behind every tree:D

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

That doesn't surprise me at all since you have proven that you can't comprehend any facts above the sixth grade level .

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

Miniaturized sothey can more easily navigate those narrow trailsthose steep slopes.:D

RE: Once again the USP screws everyone including themselves
 

I agree , RSB is just being silly ,which is consistent with his ignorant ideas over the past 7 years.