HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
01-30-2009 | 07:13 AM
#31
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,167
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From: PA
RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
I agree that we needed less deer than we had in 1997 but I don't believe we needed less deer in 2005.
And once again I'm talking about Crawford county where wecan support lots more deer than the big woods areas where food is very much dependent on a good mast crop,and most of the mast was destroyed by the gypsy moth further limiting deer numbers. I own a camp in Titioute ,I grew up hunting there until it became an effort in futility,so I bough land here in Meadville and I'm watching it happen all over again.
I will not let it happen here. As I have stated many times ,its up to hunters who feel that there is a problem to makethe difference.
Within the P.G.C. I'm seeing what has become the way of our police, cops refuse to bust another cop and in my mind that makes for two guilty cops. If the guy at the top is rotten whats that make the guy on the bottom?
And once again I'm talking about Crawford county where wecan support lots more deer than the big woods areas where food is very much dependent on a good mast crop,and most of the mast was destroyed by the gypsy moth further limiting deer numbers. I own a camp in Titioute ,I grew up hunting there until it became an effort in futility,so I bough land here in Meadville and I'm watching it happen all over again.
I will not let it happen here. As I have stated many times ,its up to hunters who feel that there is a problem to makethe difference.
Within the P.G.C. I'm seeing what has become the way of our police, cops refuse to bust another cop and in my mind that makes for two guilty cops. If the guy at the top is rotten whats that make the guy on the bottom?
01-30-2009 | 07:29 AM
#32
Typical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 554
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From: Pa.
RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
"the herd was definately increasing from 1987 untiol 1997.there is no doubtabout it.We needed less deer."
In 1988 bonus tags started, the herd may have been increasing in some parts of the state but not in the North central, they pounded the heck out of the doe from 1988 until around 2003 now we have these goof ball that say the deerstarved to death up there, I don't mind having less deer in places but don't lie about why we have less.
In 1988 bonus tags started, the herd may have been increasing in some parts of the state but not in the North central, they pounded the heck out of the doe from 1988 until around 2003 now we have these goof ball that say the deerstarved to death up there, I don't mind having less deer in places but don't lie about why we have less.
01-30-2009 | 07:34 AM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
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RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
The fact is the herd both increased and decreased from 1987 to 1997 , but the end result was there was no significant increase in the herd during that period.
1987 157,547 177,242 334,789 1,556
* 1988 163,106 218,293 381,399 1,614
* 1989 169,795 218,806 388,601 2,213
* 1990 170,101 245,460 415,561 1,200
* 1991 149,598 238,417 388,015 1,687
* 1992 163,159 198,065 361,224 1,589
* 1993 165,214 243,343 408,557 1,790
* 1994 157,030 238,051 395,081 1,365
* 1995 182,235 248,348 430,583 2,190
* 1996 153,432 197,565 350,997 1,796
* 1997 176,677 220,339
According to Cal Dubrock a harvest of only 220 K doe kept the herd stable with a buck harvest of 177K. In 2007 they claimed the harvest of 214K doe kept the herd stable but we only harvested 10(K buck. The PGC i still lying to the hunters.
1987 157,547 177,242 334,789 1,556
* 1988 163,106 218,293 381,399 1,614
* 1989 169,795 218,806 388,601 2,213
* 1990 170,101 245,460 415,561 1,200
* 1991 149,598 238,417 388,015 1,687
* 1992 163,159 198,065 361,224 1,589
* 1993 165,214 243,343 408,557 1,790
* 1994 157,030 238,051 395,081 1,365
* 1995 182,235 248,348 430,583 2,190
* 1996 153,432 197,565 350,997 1,796
* 1997 176,677 220,339
According to Cal Dubrock a harvest of only 220 K doe kept the herd stable with a buck harvest of 177K. In 2007 they claimed the harvest of 214K doe kept the herd stable but we only harvested 10(K buck. The PGC i still lying to the hunters.
01-30-2009 | 07:35 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
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RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
Jim,deer should have to depend on a mast crop.Mast crops are not dependable and they're a food source that's only available for a limited amount oftime in the fall.Deer need browse and that browse is severly lacking from decades of overbrowsing.
Losthorn,we have less deer in the northcentral part of the state because the habitat is so poor.That's a fact.
It's also a fact that counies such as potter and Tioga still had increasing herds up until about 2001.
Losthorn,we have less deer in the northcentral part of the state because the habitat is so poor.That's a fact.
It's also a fact that counies such as potter and Tioga still had increasing herds up until about 2001.
01-30-2009 | 07:40 AM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
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RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
Losthorn,we have less deer in the northcentral part of the state because the habitat is so poor.That's a fact.
01-30-2009 | 07:41 AM
#36
Typical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 554
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From: Pa.
RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
"Losthorn,we have less deer in the northcentral part of the state because the habitat is so poor.That's a fact.
It's also a fact that counies such as potter and Tioga still had increasing herds up until about 2001."
That's not a fact, that's CALCULATED!!!
It's also a fact that counies such as potter and Tioga still had increasing herds up until about 2001."
That's not a fact, that's CALCULATED!!!
01-30-2009 | 07:55 AM
#37
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,195
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From: PA.
RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
Its painfully obvious to those who choose to look that deer program is designed for financial & economic gain.
Whose doing the gaining? I'm not sure,but it is not those of us that hunt.
Its painfully obvious to those who choose to look that deer program is designed for financial & economic gain.
Whose doing the gaining? I'm not sure,but it is not those of us that hunt.
01-30-2009 | 07:59 AM
#38
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: PA.
RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
ORIGINAL: DougE
Where is it painfully obvious that anyone is getting paid off by anyone?It's no secret that our state forests are certified.I have a copy of the entire forest certification so I'm very familiar with it's background.In order to get re-certified,DCNR was told to do whatever was politically necessary to keep deer numbers down.That's no secret either.What they did was,they put a moratorium on handing over and land aquistitions to the PGC for a short period of time.What you have to realize is that the PGC did not cave in to any of the demands that DCNR was asking for.Read losthorns list and see what they actually wanted.They got dmap,that's it.
Yes,politics were at play and money was at risk.None of that is a secret.i'm just waiting to see how the PGC has benefitted financially from any of this.Please tell.Our state game lands aren't certified.
Where is it painfully obvious that anyone is getting paid off by anyone?It's no secret that our state forests are certified.I have a copy of the entire forest certification so I'm very familiar with it's background.In order to get re-certified,DCNR was told to do whatever was politically necessary to keep deer numbers down.That's no secret either.What they did was,they put a moratorium on handing over and land aquistitions to the PGC for a short period of time.What you have to realize is that the PGC did not cave in to any of the demands that DCNR was asking for.Read losthorns list and see what they actually wanted.They got dmap,that's it.
Yes,politics were at play and money was at risk.None of that is a secret.i'm just waiting to see how the PGC has benefitted financially from any of this.Please tell.Our state game lands aren't certified.
i saidit before,BEST HABITAT IN WORLD IS ON THE STATE GAMELANDS IN PAAND VERY FEW DEER EXIST ON STATEGAMELANDS.
01-30-2009 | 08:00 AM
#39
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,195
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From: PA.
RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
Doug , I'm not saying your area hasn't been adversely affected by deer. And I believe there are huge areas that are or have been affected by deer,but I live in Crawford county,its a deers Paradise. We have fields of clover ,fields of corn ,gas wells have opened the canopy in thousands of areas and we in an area that timbering is going on year around. My woods are basically impenetrable with new growth and multiflora rose ,yet we have reduced our deer numbers for some reason,and I'll guarantee it wasn't because of habitat destruction.
So I ask why? And I posted what I found,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Doug , I'm not saying your area hasn't been adversely affected by deer. And I believe there are huge areas that are or have been affected by deer,but I live in Crawford county,its a deers Paradise. We have fields of clover ,fields of corn ,gas wells have opened the canopy in thousands of areas and we in an area that timbering is going on year around. My woods are basically impenetrable with new growth and multiflora rose ,yet we have reduced our deer numbers for some reason,and I'll guarantee it wasn't because of habitat destruction.
So I ask why? And I posted what I found,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
AGAIN, VERY WELL SAID.......
01-30-2009 | 08:11 AM
#40
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: PA.
RE: HOW DID THE PGC COMMISSIOINERS GET APPOINTED?
ORIGINAL: DougE
I keep hearing about how this is all about money for the PGC.How specifically did they benefit?Who got paid?Wheres' the proof.The commissioners vote on the regs.Are you saying they got paid off by someone?I sweriously don't get it
I keep hearing about how this is all about money for the PGC.How specifically did they benefit?Who got paid?Wheres' the proof.The commissioners vote on the regs.Are you saying they got paid off by someone?I sweriously don't get it
i was at the sportsmans show back in RIDGE admins.
i was there as a REPUBLICAN REP.
iwas with governot as we walked the sportsmans show at harrisburg,pa.
we got to the PGC table.
that month the PGC was after raise or whatever you want to call it.
1 of thepgc CAME OVER AND SAID, tom, yes he said tom
,DONT FORGET US ON THIS AND HE WINKED AND RUBBED HIS BACK.....i was there and heard it.
its INFLUENCE which leads to money and votes like said here.
i used to walk into almost any congressmans office in washington,dc.
why, because i was UNION REP.
they would be talking on phone and hang up when ole sproul came in door.
its same with your INSURANCE co,you know that.
this is all causing our problems now, its MONEY , try to follow MONEY, its hard but it will lead you to answer.