Maybe the breeding rates declined could be tied into the funding short fall,it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that breeding rates and financial difficulties are happening because Gary Alt shot all of the rich,mature,and pretty doe and then ran off to California because he hates PA deer hunters.
And now the P.G.C. is flatbroke and we are left with a couple ofhomely does that no bucks wants to rut with.
I'm feeling kinda [&:].

No, you couldn't present accurate before and after numbers and instead gave county numbers for one time period and wmu numbers for the other. WMU lines split counties in half and vice versa. No accurate conclusions can be drawn by comparing counties to WMU's

WMU vs county information is classic apples vs oranges. It didnt fly the first time you tried and it wont fly now

I also provided the current sample sizes and distribution from the 2007 AWR which shows only a total 107 doe were check in 2F and 2G while the combined results for 2B and 5C was 288. That totally negates your and RSB's claim that the 5% decline in breeding rates was die to a shift in sample size and location.

""am a former mod and I have absolutely NO love for that weasel Dutch.....GTF shot herself in the foot when she posted about the 28% mortality""

I see you are definately able to identify a weasel when you see one...or two!

After telling hunters to take a flying leap for preventing the PGC from managing the deer, guess who said this on another MB?
Now that the deer in 2G have nearly twice as much food/deer as they did before, fawn recruitment should have increased dramatically over the past few years.

Their is no evidence to support your theory that there is twice as much food in 2G as before. We could resonably expect that there would be some better quantities of forage but assuming twice as much is not realistic.

fawn mortality due to poor nutrition and low birth rates seem a far more plausible theory in light of the doe and fawn mortality studies showing both the higher fawn mortality experienced in Quehanna and also to te low apparent mortality in both due to hunting.

The part we didn'tlearn aboutfawn mortality from the study is how many were lost before even being detected and captured by thefawn study crews. fawns dying within the first24-48 hours of life were not addressed in the study. The study started with captured live fawns and monitired mortality after that.

If the herd is reduced by 50% in 2G, can you explain why there wouldn't be twice as much food/deer? Furthermore, since breeding rates and productivity decreased as the herd was reduced, we know that the habitat was not the controlling factor which determined breeding rates and productivity.
The fact that the study didn't account for those fawns doesn't matter. Based on harvest data and the road killed doe that are checked they know how many fawns are recruited each year and that is the number that really matters.

There is another prime example of how you twist things intogoofiness at every opportunity. I swear I don’t know if you are that far out of touch with reality or if you are just evil minded in your attempts to promoteyour misguided mission.

There is not twice as much food per deer or anything close to it. In fact the only reason there are fewer deer in unit 2G is from the fact that the food that was there through those back to back harsh winter years wouldn’t support the increased number of deer that occurred through that previous run of five or six consecutive years of better then normal mast with no winter snows. What happened in unit 2G was that the deer population just crashed to meet the level of the existing habitat and environmental conditions. The habitat did improve slightly because nature reduced the deer populations to a level that matched those harsh winters, which was actually lower then it normally needs to be. So with fewer deer the habitat has improved, but not enough for any major or long term increase in deer numbers.

The deer population will, and all indicators are that it already is, increase to meet the improved habitat as long as we have normal winters. But, in the northern tier mountainous areas of the state the deer numbers will always experience some normal, and even significant, up and down trends based on the annual environmental variables.

By the way, you should have pulled and posted those pictures of the winter starved deer in Greene County from that other site too. Must be that didn't fit into your agenda.

Cornelius needs to see those dead deer though since he believes there aren’t any habitat issues preventing more deer down that way; I guess the deer are telling a different story about the state of the habitat down there in Greene County and unit 2A though.

R.S. Bodenhorn

"By the way, you should have pulled and posted those pictures of the winter starved deer in Greene County from that other site too. Must be that didn't fit into your agenda."

Rediculous. Tens of thousands of deer in a wmu, with fine herd and habitat health, and you think thatZERO deer should ever die? News for you RSB, natural mortality is just that. Natural. And it includes sickness, disease, injury, infection, lingering woundsetc.To expect NONE todie EVER during harsh winter is rediculous. AndIve lived and traveled this wmufor many many years and have many friends family members etc. who do as well, some of which are landowners....And winter kill has NEVER been a problem in Greene. EVER.There is not onewmu (or any other northern state for that matter) that NEVER has ANY deer die during winter, and by comparison This area is FAR less than most. Also if you compare the percentages of winterkill to other areas of the state, considering herd size, the kill in sw is a completenonissue and tiny by comparison....and even having said that, the other areas don't exactly exceed the norm either. You guys are in a whole other world up there. We had a bit of snow a couple of weeks ago. Maybe an inch. Its been gone for awhile. You guys probably still have snow? You guys get it by the foot. If we get a foot of snow, its about a once in a decade occurence if we're lucky. Really funny when I see the weather maps on tv and the snow you guys get and we arelucky to get a half inch.

"Cornelius needs to see those dead deer though since he believes there aren’t any habitat issues preventing more deer down that way;"

RSB, I get outALOT. All year long. I see what goes on here, and Ive also seen the data, which btw backs me 100%. You are preaching a very basic principal that simply doesnt apply here to the extent you think it mightwhile sittingtherehalf a stateaway, lucky to have ever set foot in the wmuat all. I know what goes on on properties across all corners of this wmu all throughout the year. I am also intimately familiar with what deer eat and what is available. In this wmu there is MUCH more to eat than many other areas of the state, even with alot more deer munchin' on it.(LOL)

"I guess the deer are telling a different story about the state of the habitat down there in Greene County and unit 2A though. "

Not at all. Not in the least. As healthy a herd as anywhere in the state. Of course, it was even when we had twice the overwinter deer. Now to insinuate otherwise is absolutely rediculous. Apparently pgc cannot disagree that winterkill isnt a problem (LOL)(Rediculous!) (LOL). They set the goal of "stabilization" based on the habitat health and herd health. Have a problem with that?? Take it up with them. I happen to agree. Even if the allocation doesnt support that supposed goal. I also dont think it fair at all to draw any conclusion based on two deer on one property which equates to one tiny portion of the wmu, which is far from the norm, And im very familiar with the deep valley area. Tons of off limits land. Lots of deer. Not the best habitat in the wmu by far, but far from the worse parts of the state..

Dont know if the post on "the other board" was for my benefit,intended to catch my attention. Them knowing full well I am from 2A and argue points in regard to the wmu adamently and vocally, and also that Im an unwelcome antideer plan member of their tainted website. Seems maybeyou/they would like for old Cornelius to arise from the weedbed and take a swipe at the wobbly lure you guys are agressively"trolling", but I aint bitin'.[:'(]...

Id say for anyone to ever suggest winterkill in ...(LOL) 2A!!! or herd health currently IS an issue, has alterior motives for making such an asnine claim.