WestVirginiaBrent

I was just reading that audit thread and it's interesting, but I don't know the back story. []

Is someone suing the state over the antler restrictions? Is someone suing because they issue too many doe tags?

What am I looking at here?

Charlie P

You'de think that the USP would have the lawsuit on their website, but they don't.

BTBowhunter

The Uninformed Sportsmen of PA or USP for short has sued the Game commission claiming that the deer management policies are endangering the deer herd. It was thrown out once and was refiled and could well be thrown out again.

It's basically a splinter group formed decades ago by well meaing but uninformed people that have been predicting the total anhialation of the deeer herd ever since the first bonus tag was produced.

The suit is basically contentions by a group ofevery day huntersclaiming that the wildlife biologists and scientists running the deer program don't know what they are doing and that PA's deer management decisions should be based on what the USP feels is right instead of what the biologists recommend.

WestVirginiaBrent

I hunt WV primarily but I have deer hunted near Bedford, PA a few times in the last 5 years and there are plenty of deer, too many does actually, and a lot of bucks.There areenough large bucks running around that it's rare to see one that isn't all busted up from fighting. We're all out of staters (even the owner) so we never get a doe tag, it'd do the place well to take out some does. Where is the main complaint's about "no deer in PA" coming from, public land area's?

BTBowhunter

There are some areas where the deer herds are way down from a decade ago. The USP types, of course, blame the PGC and the doe tag allocations. Sometimes that is part of it. The other causes include poor habitat and predation. A doe mortality study in North central PA (the area causing the most controversy) of collared does showed hunters killed only 8% and 15% in consecutive years of those does in the study. The scientists running the study acknowledged that collared does might less somewhat less likely to be shot by hunters but it still points out that hunting isn't the only thing killing the deer off.

A problem that does actaully exist is that virtually every WMU has pockets of land that are either overharvested or undeharvested. Private land and accessability has a lot to do with that and that particularproblem may never be solveable.

The only thing the USP lawsuit is likely to accomplish is to divert time and resources from the real problems we have in this state.

WestVirginiaBrent

Outside looking in, in damn near every facet of your game management, Pennsylvannia seems to rule with everything other than logic. No offense meant, lol.

WV doesn't have much to brag about, but our DNR actually seem to do a damned good job and they adapt as needed. I don't like the antler restriction law because it has no flexibility for mature crappy genetic'd bucks. I had a 200+ pound mature 4 point walk out in front of me last year and I had to just let him keep on going so he could pass those bad genetics off to who knows how many does. It was without a doubt the largest 4 point I'll ever see, heavy mass, 10" tines, and probably a 16" spread. But since it had no eye tines he didn't qualify as a shooter.

BTBowhunter

Have faith. While there's no sure way to keep some inferior bucks from breeding, antler size has been proven to be an unreliabe indicator of a bucks genetic potential until the buck reaches 4.5 years of age.

A study of wild free ranging deer By Dr James Kroll aka Dr Deer showed that even spindly spikes candevelop impressive antlers as they age and that the deer with a 10 pont rack as his first headgear is not liklely to be any better than the deer that started as a spikewhen they are bothmature bucks.

That big 4 point you mention may be an exception to the rule,he may be old and on his way downhill, he may evenhave a better rack next year.

No management strategy will make everything better all at once. It's about helping the odds for themajority of deer in the majority of areas.

sproulman

i am longtime member of USP.

i was there when it started years ago,like over 30 years ago.

they do have a DEFENSE FUND set up for donations.

USP is trying to stop the OVERHARVEST OF DOE in wmu2g.

when you see 3 deer a mile or no deer in mile or MILES,too much doe killing.

way it was brought about was terrible.

to hand out like 6 doe tags ea.in past years ,it has done what they wanted, to reduce deer to almost a few.

the DCNR is behind ALL of this, PGC just is doing what they want.

commissioners are DCNR thru and blue.

this is what is behind the USP lawsuits.

bluebird2

BTB is intentionally misrepresenting the results of the Kroll study. The study did not show that all 1.5 spikes had the potential to reach the same size as a 1.5 6pt. at 4.5 years, But the study did prove that 1.5 spikes are inferior for the rate of antler development. Since very few of our buck live to 4.5 , the average 1.5spike will never live long enough to equal the 1.5 6pt. so the average 2.5 buck produced by ARs will be smaller than the average 2.5+ buck in a non-AR herd.

The current plan reduced our buck harvest by 43%, breeding rates decreased, productivity decreased, we are harvesting fewer 2.5+ buck than in the first year of ARs,antlerless harvests have decreased significantly and the number of junior license holders is decreasing.WHAT A PLAN!!!

gygoatman

Hay sproulman if you are and your buddies are getting 6 doe tags each its time to return some of them so the PGC can reissue the to other hunters. I have been hunting in 2g for the last 5 years, thing are bad but not as bad as everybody thinks. Don't forget 85,000 acres covers a large part of 2g, and you are only seeing the deer that is standing along side a 15 or 20 mile stretch of roady.