I don't think it has to do much to do with them wising up although Idon't doubt what you say.I think they're just extremely susceptible to dieases such as mange and I believe distemper.I'm out and about quite a bit and I've seen less sign the last few years,even in the areas that have more deer.They certainly take deer from time to time but their impact isn't as high as some would like you to believe.In good habitat,where the fawns have cover and the nutrition to put on weight fast,there isn't a big impact.We can debate that all day.However,There is no debating the fact that these mysterious den site pictures never seem to actually show up.It would make no sense for a coyote to drag a carcuss back to a den and there's no evidence that they actually do it.Just another urban legend that is as baseless as the broke down cattle trucks loaded with coyotes and the coyotes wit insurance company tags in their ears.

Do a little research Sproul.Coyotes don't bring carcuses back to dens.When the pups are ready to eat solid food,the parents regurgitate food for them to eat.They don't drag entire fawns into dens.

Yep Sproul,I hear coyotes from time to time.

coyotes cover a lot of territory but seem to have same den areas.

they start out at about 15 minutes after dark, they will call each other ONLY 1 time,then togehter off they go.

then at sunrise, same thing, they will call 1 time before they head to bed.

they cover MILES hunting, i bet 5 to 10 miles they walk night.

in winter they cover more than summer,more food is available in summer.

"I don't think it has to do much to do with them wising up although Idon't doubt what you say."

Has a ton to do with wising up. Annually a large percentage of the population is taken incidentally by deer hunters groundhog hunters and others. Even given that fact adults had a 80+% survival rate. Telemetry studies showed how they absolutely avoided dangerous areas and areas around houses, even abandoned farm houses and far more time in thethickest and most inaccessable areaswhich wasnt the case with younger less experienced yotes. Also, all that Ive studied on the topic and all that Ive seen in my years hunting them, they are one VERY intelligent animal by wildlife standards.

"I think they're just extremely susceptible to dieases such as mange and I believe distemper."

Absolutely. Definate factors.

"I'm out and about quite a bit and I've seen less sign the last few years,even in the areas that have more deer.They certainly take deer from time to time but their impact isn't as high as some would like you to believe."

I agree. I have not found a coyote killed deer. I believe them harder on the fawns, but occassionally in winter believe they cantake adult if necessary. They and bobcat are absoluteMURDER on turkey flocks. Both areabsolute pros at snatching turkey. In one area of 2A Id seen a HUGE decrease in turkeynumberscoinciding with large increase in both yotes and bcats. Found turkey kills from both as well on a few different occassions.

Not real sure on the possibilty of the den site thing. Havent personally found any den sites that were active and none that had signs of large bones etc. I have examined active fox dens and do know that they often bring back more than simply what they regurgitate.

You have a point Doug, I can't be certain they were killed or eaten as carrion. I will say that we saw ZERO yote sign in the snow for rifle season, although I saw a ton of bear sign. One even walked within 3 feet of my head the night before the opener. (along the outside wall of the camp naturally). We saw no cat tracks this time either. ALL bear sign. Very peculiar change from bobs and yotes galore to only bears in one year. Do the bears push the smaller preds out? In spite of what I assume were fawn kills, we did see fawns during rifle.

"Do the bears push the smaller preds out?"

No. While they wont be standing side by side sharing a meal (LOL) Coyotes and bobs are FAR too quick and agile to care one way or another about a bear in the area. Ive also been to a few areas that hold good numbers of all three.

bobs and especially yotes have large territories and its not at all odd to see large amounts of sign in an area for awhile and none at all on later dates.

i did not know that.

when i find deer hair, i never find the deer.

trapper friend said thats a bear kill.

it seems when coyote gets a fawn, you dont find much of fawn.

maybe thats do to time of year in june,we are not in woods much and bones can be carried of by other animals too.

i never saw coyote run down a grown deer but i know they are killing fawns.

when a rabbit is in my trailcam, deer keep on eating, when a fox is in my trailcam, deer keep eating,when a coyote is in my trailcam, deer have left and i have picture on my desk on deer and fawn just before they attacked the fawn,then they sniffed on ground after they chased deer away.

i think they were looking for doe in heat smell way they sniffed right where she was standing.

this may be only fawn i saw this yearbut it was not in my hunting territory,i saw no fawns this year anywhere i hunted.

i also saw NO SPIKE BUCKS OR LESS THAN 3 POINT BUCKS in clinton county.

I heard about the legs out of the den picture and thought it was what they did. If it exists I would love to see it.

If you guys havent read the fawn study journals it is definitely worth the time. It spells out the differences in forensic evidence in predator kills and is quite clear in helping evaluate whether a fresh kill is from a coyote, bear or bobcat.

Bears and yotes killed almost equal (and substantial) numbers of fawns and bobs killed only a few as I recall.

It describes the various kill sites very well.

Greg, if your dead fawns were indeed predator kills, the odds are about 50/50 as to whether it was bears or coyotes.