WillCz

Before the restrictions my biggest buck of 18 deer was a basket rack 6 pointer. Same SGL 4C. Since, I have shot 5*7-8-9 pointers all close to or over 100 inches.

It has saved the sport for many of us in our area that want to hunt for bigger racked bucks. They just weren't there before AR.

fellas2

I really don't think anybody is disagreeing that the AR has produced some bigger bucks,that only common sense since especially here in 2A and 2B,it halmost has to be a basic 8 point to be legal.Many hunters ,myself included ,are questioning why the pure numbers have dropped so drastically.If 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 year old bucks given a free pass to live on,should they not then be available to harvest as 3 1/2 , 4 1/2, and 5 1/2 year old bucks ?

bullmoose38

To answer your question when a deer hits 3.5 years they become really harder to kill. Why because they are alot smarter. Each year a whitetail makes it through a hunting season the harder they get to kill. You may think they are no older deer around but I would bet there is.

BTBowhunter

Fair question Rodger,

The pure numbers have dropped for several reasons IMHO

HR, the concurrent season and and the aggressive harvest of does is part of it of course. But so is the evolution, or deterioration if you will, of habitat in some areas with 2G being the most significant example.

As for the 3 1/2 and up bucks, I'm not sure there is any way to manage statewide for them with 900,000+ hunters unless we begin to limit buck tags in some way. I don't think that is a concept that will ever fly here. One thing for sure is that no buck can get to 3.5+ if it dies at 1.5.
It is only reasonable, while admittedly not proven, that SOME of those bucks allowed to live through that foolish "teenage year" will gain an opportunity to learn the survival skills necessary to get to 3.5 and beyond.

pahunter60

another thing to think about is do you hunt archery, rifle or both. I hunted rifle all my life and i never really had a deer walk so where i can count the points.

Jimimac

Well, if you can't count the points you best not be shooting, regardless of weapon.

forddeerslayer

couldnt it be that the buck kills are lower because of the doe killing that has happened here??? i dont see how the AR is the main problem.

forddeerslayer

i never had deer like this around before

cuernos1

Love them.. we need more.. Fortunately I have hunted all over the US and seen different game management programs... We have lagged... this is the first year that I have not been able to hunt our farm... I always get a deer when I want.. there have been seasons where all I did was thin the does and leave the bucks walk... Which is management... Our farm's carrying capacity is not able to handle the volume of does we now have... the antiquated thinking that we shouldn't hunt does is crazy... does eat too.. simple math is 100,000 does equal 100,000 fawns...but it is actually much higher... mature does throw an average of 2 fawns...

Whether some agree or not Gary Alt was right... no one contradicts his results on bear numbers.. he did that but bear are not the game of choice so he got the time needed to change the population and help the animal.. when he started changing the methodology for hunting to more what one sees in Texas, Ohio, Georgia, or Ill.. we hear all the moaning.. we did not allow him to finish his plan.. Farmers understand carrying capacity and so do wildlife biologists... Yes there would be peaks and valleys but allow someone to complete the plan...

I hear all the crying about no deer and the recent study at Penn State really shows a problem.. deer move due to pressure and if one gets deeper than 1mile the see animals.. it is no different here in the west where I currently live... I shot a very large blacktail in a heavily hunted area where everyone said there was nothing left...

Come on.. You guys re-elected John Murtha back and he called me a redneck and a racist on National TV. he's an idiot.. So we re-elect an idiot and a noted game biologist with an amazing record of accomplishments we pressure out cause he was honest.. Happy Thanksgiving....

he now he can influence all kinds of things which effect you...

cuernos1

BTBowhunter, and several others.. I agree in theory one would think that the deer where there?? But the comment someone wrote about that they have never had the chance to count the points on a buck.. OMG...

Are you any smarter from your past experiences?? Let me answer that for you.. YES YOU ARE... so are those bucks... if they make if 2years of folks stumbling into their areas they become far more intelligent... we all do.. I have pics on my farm of deer I've never seen... but they find every nook and cranny to hide... I've had older bucks lay behind our house in this patch of scrubs we have.. I never shoot them just laugh and watch.. I could shoot them out of my window..60yds.. but they just lay there, we come and go and they never move... in the evening when I turn on the lights in the machine shed.. I see them feeding in the yard... Deer are smart... and surviving a few seasons makes them smarter...

I hate watching these game shows and seeing them highlight PA as a backwards hunting mentality.. hello, they don't highlight Ill as ooops state.. I know our farm can produce huge bucks.. so do the mountains.. but we as hunters need to be better.. I ask you..do you wash your clothes, not smoke, use cover scent, not hunt certain stands if the wind is wrong, use a scentlock.. get dressed in the field, don't over hunt the stand, and take a doe with every buck annually?? if you do great, you are like many of us.. and I kill a lot of critters annually.... I use this same system out west while I am out here and I hunt Blacktails and Mulies like Whitetails.. I always find the bigger bucks out here now in the thickets.. but western hunters hate to sit..

Food for thought... but read game management in GA or TX or ILL.. the only difference it we have the genetics in our deer in PA to grow monsters they had to work on it by importing our deer to many of those other states..