pahunter60

sorry cuernos1, thank you for all youve done, but you dont have to act like i knew all that stuff

Jimimac

Ummmm....you started this thread. What did you actually expect? This has been re-hashed many times on hunting boards and no one ever budges.

bluebird2

Apparently you and Alt are the primary contenders for that title since both you and Alt claimed the buck harvest would return to normal after the first year of ARs. Even when the buck harvest dropped anther 23K in 2003 you still insisted the buck harvest would return to normal because of increased breeding rates and recruitment. now ,after breeding rates and recruitment have decreased instead of increasing and the buck harvest is down by 46% you are still claiming ARs are working as planned. Therefore, I think it obvious that you are the winner ,since Alt was at least smart enough to leave town and shut up.
That is just pure nonsense. Recruitment dropped significantly because there were 35-40% fewer adult doe available to produce fawns. Breeding rates decreased because the average age of the doe was lower due to HR and the effects of predation were more noticeable since there were so few doe producing fawns.

COWBOYSFAN

How many days do you hunt in a season?

fellas2

Kudosto RSB for the post on page 6.It only re-enforces my claim about the AR.Looking at his data,letting 1 1/2 year old small racked bucks walk only serves to prolong the inevitable for another year,two at most. The 1 1/2 year olds walk only to be killed the following year or at best their third year.Far fewer make it past their third year and almost none make it to mature age of 5 1/2 - 7 1/2.So basically all the AR does is raise the average rack size of bucks taken and nothing else.

cuernos1

So, if we were to boil this down, there are less deer in PA... GOOD.. the ave age of a buck is 2.5yrs .. Better.... There are less does.... Better.... The changes that I am reading tend to revolve around the following:

With less deer and older bucks we see an increase in the smarts area of the bucks... so, they become more nocturnal, and elusive...Their training camp is one of the heaviest hunted states in the Nation... so daily they encounter people.. so they are wiser... BETTER.. it isn't as easy to shoot something as it once was... Better

Bucks will die.. most will make a fatal error and catch a round... or car hood... but those biggins will slink around hiding in the weeds behind my garage until the pressure goes down... in the mountain areas one has to do deeper and farther... that is good.. enjoy the outdoors.. even with the plate in my hips and issues... I hike in deep every year and usually kill a nice deer...

so as to the final outcome in this debate, less deer bigger bucks, more skill needed to down them... before you launch into some sort of tirade, read some of the info regarding {carrying capacity Colorado has some good stuff on their website, Ill has some regarding their management program,too..then go to the QDMA quality deer management association site.. > good info...

Too many of us take for granted our freedoms here and the idea of going back in time to a slaughter is out.. the anti's will use hunting away.. deer management is the future... It does a few things which we have not discussed.. 1.Property price goes up along withthe hunting quality.. look at land prices in Ill, Iowa, KY..those are not places businesses are moving they are hunting hotspots.. 2.They gain attention and increase revenues for thestate and local businesses..

Our thinking needs to be long term.. worrying about killing all the deer come on.. we shot all the damn deer in the state during the commercial years and in less than 30 yrs were harvesting 80k plus... from 1950 to 80 what an increase.. so forget that line of thought...

The comments referencing Alt's statements, he never had an opportunity to accomplish his goal.. His bear program is great.. when you can harvest 2000 bears annually that is an accomplishment especially in such a populated state....



Here are a few things we need to manage game but many are afraid to ask for.. More ability to stop trespassing.. my farm gets more idiots who say they didn't know after crawling over my fence and passing my signs. there is nothing I as a landowner can do.. Police have to have an illegal act and game guys need a dead deer. it is BS... if you are on my place without my permission you should get fined large.. period. I pay the taxes not the trespasser or make them pay my taxes for that year as a fine.. I put in food plots have feeders up in the worst months... I rotate my food plots.. but that is for me.. not everyone else...

More doe tags for those landowners who want them.... on my food plots some mornings I will have 50plus does on them and only small bucks 2 or 3.. not good odds.. camera shots give me no better averages... I need about 30 does shot off... and the way they do it here is so antiquated...looks like a craigslist doe hunt next year.. brown and down season.. but that is not management.. I would selectively harvest the does if I could.. but I do not have the tools...

fellas2

You could actually harvest all the does you need to by opening your property up to selective public hunting instead of posting it and keeping all hunters off.Why should the PGC give you special treatment by issuing extra doe tags when they have nothing to benefit from it.If there's on thing that sticks in my craw it landowners who think the wildlife that reside on their property think they own that wildlife and should be able to do with it what they please.

BTBowhunter

You may be right. Time will tell, but I think most of us are OK with the average rack size getting better.

BTBowhunter

Cuernos1

Thank you for your service! Without guys like you none of us would be able to sit here and voice our opinions on much of anything.

Thank you for keeping America the land of the free because of the brave!!!!

fellas2

I have no problem with an increase in average rack size either,but at what price ?