RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

They didn't kill another 1200 doe in 1977 so I still don't know what you are talking about.
If you are claiming that the 1977 doe harvest was responsible for the decrease in the herd ,you are wrong since the buck to doe harvest ratio was too low to result in HR.

RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

Doug You are correct.

Tionesta is where half my ancestry and my camp is and I've been hunting the ANF around there since 1969. I can remember no particularly significant winter kill from ice storms in that area in all that time although I do remember hearing reports of severe kills quite a while back to the east of Forest County in some of the counties that make up 2G.

Over the years we have had to adjust our hunting areas as food supplies changed with the changing forests. For example, the 85 tornadoes created a haven for nice deer for several years providing both food from regenerating forests and dense cover. Those areas are now mostly pole timber with few deer. In areas where the gypsy moth wreaked havoc and some salvage or preventive timbering took place we experienced temporarily better deer hunting. In among the ANF land is also some private timber holdings and at least one of the larger timber companies is doing a superb job of managing their forests and the deer hunting therehas been very good.

Has any particualr woodlot in the Tionesta area been great for the last 40 years?A few, perhaps but mostly, it has been a changing game for the entire timeI've been hunting there. Some of my old favorite honey holes are now deer deserts but new "secret spots" have evolved and developed.

Very few of us as hunters have the luxury of calling the shots on how the timber gets managed. Being adaptable is the only way to have continued success when hunting the big woods areas that are either publicly held or privately held but open to public hunting.

RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

BTBOWHUNTER,see you made it back from Illinois,how was the huntin ?

RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

Hi Rodger,

The hunting was great! I did not harvest one but I had 10 quality shot opportunities at 115-130 class deer that I chose to leave walk.I let them all walk because I also had a 4x5 that would have flirted with 170 in the area. I saw him several times from stand but 29 yards in the heavy brush was as close as I got. We had 7-8 different bucks on the property that would easily go over 150+ Thats ifI only count the ones sighted by hunters who's field judging can be counted on. One of our guys killed the buck below. He grossed 171"

RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

BT,that same tornado ravaged several thousand acres not far from my home.You are 100% correct.Thattornado turned that whole areas into one giant clearcut and the herd exploded.Today,that all pole timber with a very low carrying capacity and a very low deer density.Prood positive of why you can't timber too much at one time.

RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

Excellent post by the way.

RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

The proof positive of your post is that the deer did not prevent the area from regenerating ,even though it had been over browsed for over 50 years. And the area didn't regenerate because the deer couldn't get to the new growth , because if that were true the habitat would have controlled the herd as RSB claimed and the herd would not have" exploded".

So, what you have shown is that harvesting larger areas would allow adequate regeneration and much higher deer densities.

RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

The tornadoes were a random natural disaster event wiping out nearly everything in their path. The two that came near my place were an average of a mile wide and stretch almost completely across Forest County and on into Elk County. It is ridiculously naive and irresponsible to expect that any landowner would harvest timber in a similar size area in any given year.

You need to be reminded that most landowners don't own their land just to produce enough deer to keep the likes of you and your USP buddies happy. Of course, you and yoour USP buddies are welcome to go buy upsome property and cut as many trees as you see fit and create your own little deer factory.

RE: PA Fall deer Chronicles
 

No one claimed that anyone should harvest timber in a similar size area. The point i was making is that larger size cuts would allow adequate regeneration at higher deer densities. The Grouse Study showed that forests could be managed to allow regeneration at higher deer densities if managed properly.

While that may or may not be true, there is still no reason why the herd should be managed to attain a density that allows DCNR to sell their certified timber at higher prices for export when DCNR only manages around 1M, acres for timber production.