Article on PA hunting
10-17-2008 | 11:28 AM
#31
Banned
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RE: Article on PA hunting
Rsb, your data is a pathetic attempt to hide the continual downhill slide of the last 5 years. Last year fewer 2.5's were killed then previously and that only goes to show there are NOT more and bigger bucks. Its a failed program and bunching up data in an attempt to decieve will be pointed out, and you should know that by now, so why even bother? Im sure we all appreciate your views, but would like a bit more of an honest attempt at debate from you without all the "shenanigans" (LOL).
"I really think that hunters as a whole in this state need social reengineering if you will."
Not hardly. That may be the case among a few of your friends? I know noone like that. I knowpeople who see real problems and what real solutions. Not false promises andsmokeblown.
"While I do agree with some that the PGC's deer program has failed in some areas. This needs to be addressed. I'm not sure how. Micromanaging areas with less deer would be very difficult at best."
Not when complete wmus for the most part are far below carryingcapacity and many of which alsoare rated as low human conflict even by pgcs obtuse standards.
"However, I must disagree with the people saying our deer herd is worse off now than it was before all of this took place. Yes, we have fewer deer now, but we also have healthier deer and more deer carrying impressive headgear."
Or so youve been told. Pgcs own data says otherwise. My observations and those of mostI know say otherwise. The local buck contests say otherwise.Pgcs own latestfailed scoring session (first in six years!) says otherwise.... There are more big buck PERCENTAGEWISE, but percentagewise gains us nothing. Numberswise we have fewer than previously.
"There is not a guy alive who hunts that doesn't want to see bigger racks. Leaving the small bucks walk will only improve your chances."
Idont shoot ar minimums. Im selective. Hasnt a thing to do withme approving or not approving of the unwarranteddeer slaughter.
"We are seeing a decline in hunter recruitment. It's been happening before the new deer management program started."
From 2001 to 2006 our numbers have declined at OVER DOUBLE the national average. The national average according to usfws was 4% per year in that time period. Ours was 10%. HOw you people can just "shrug" that off as the "norm" when it ISNT and try to blame anything other than the sham deer plan when its obvious is beyond me brother!
Ya got areas with 50% or more less deer! You have a completely smug irresponsive agency, and they cant figure out why so many are quitting....DUH!!
No. I dont believe they are idiots. Ibelieve they know EXACTLY why, they just dont want to take the responsibility for it and have no plans on "fixing" it by addressing the problem.
There is a lot more factors than a few less deer in the woods attributing to this. Trust me, I know. I have a 10 year old step son who is into all types of sports and other activities. He's interested in hunting, but we can't find the time to get him out. Heck, I have a hard time getting out as much as I'd like to because of the kids' activites.
Sproul, you made the comment that the dads' are shooting deer for the kids. If it is that serious of a problem in your area, do something about it. Call your local WCO and put the bug in his ear. If these hunters feel watched, they'll probably knock it off. However, I don't feel that's the only issue here. Think about it. That type of thing has been going on long before any management program was in place. Most kids usually only get to hunt a few days at the beginning of the week. They're usually in school by the end of the week and get a couple Saturdays after that.
Bottom line is us as hunters need to take more responsibility for our actions and not blame the PGC for everything that goes wrong in your neck of the woods. I hunt of well managed private property. We've been going by an 8pt rule for years. However, our buck/doe ratio was terrible for years. This was until the surrounding prison property opened up and left hunters kill does. They've been taking approximately 150 deer a year off of there for the past 10-15 years. Not only has our buck harvest been better, but our deer our heavier now. Seems to me that what has happened on our ground and surrounding prison property is what is now happening state wide.
"I really think that hunters as a whole in this state need social reengineering if you will."
Not hardly. That may be the case among a few of your friends? I know noone like that. I knowpeople who see real problems and what real solutions. Not false promises andsmokeblown.
"While I do agree with some that the PGC's deer program has failed in some areas. This needs to be addressed. I'm not sure how. Micromanaging areas with less deer would be very difficult at best."
Not when complete wmus for the most part are far below carryingcapacity and many of which alsoare rated as low human conflict even by pgcs obtuse standards.
"However, I must disagree with the people saying our deer herd is worse off now than it was before all of this took place. Yes, we have fewer deer now, but we also have healthier deer and more deer carrying impressive headgear."
Or so youve been told. Pgcs own data says otherwise. My observations and those of mostI know say otherwise. The local buck contests say otherwise.Pgcs own latestfailed scoring session (first in six years!) says otherwise.... There are more big buck PERCENTAGEWISE, but percentagewise gains us nothing. Numberswise we have fewer than previously.
"There is not a guy alive who hunts that doesn't want to see bigger racks. Leaving the small bucks walk will only improve your chances."
Idont shoot ar minimums. Im selective. Hasnt a thing to do withme approving or not approving of the unwarranteddeer slaughter.
"We are seeing a decline in hunter recruitment. It's been happening before the new deer management program started."
From 2001 to 2006 our numbers have declined at OVER DOUBLE the national average. The national average according to usfws was 4% per year in that time period. Ours was 10%. HOw you people can just "shrug" that off as the "norm" when it ISNT and try to blame anything other than the sham deer plan when its obvious is beyond me brother!
Ya got areas with 50% or more less deer! You have a completely smug irresponsive agency, and they cant figure out why so many are quitting....DUH!!
No. I dont believe they are idiots. Ibelieve they know EXACTLY why, they just dont want to take the responsibility for it and have no plans on "fixing" it by addressing the problem.
There is a lot more factors than a few less deer in the woods attributing to this. Trust me, I know. I have a 10 year old step son who is into all types of sports and other activities. He's interested in hunting, but we can't find the time to get him out. Heck, I have a hard time getting out as much as I'd like to because of the kids' activites.
Sproul, you made the comment that the dads' are shooting deer for the kids. If it is that serious of a problem in your area, do something about it. Call your local WCO and put the bug in his ear. If these hunters feel watched, they'll probably knock it off. However, I don't feel that's the only issue here. Think about it. That type of thing has been going on long before any management program was in place. Most kids usually only get to hunt a few days at the beginning of the week. They're usually in school by the end of the week and get a couple Saturdays after that.
Bottom line is us as hunters need to take more responsibility for our actions and not blame the PGC for everything that goes wrong in your neck of the woods. I hunt of well managed private property. We've been going by an 8pt rule for years. However, our buck/doe ratio was terrible for years. This was until the surrounding prison property opened up and left hunters kill does. They've been taking approximately 150 deer a year off of there for the past 10-15 years. Not only has our buck harvest been better, but our deer our heavier now. Seems to me that what has happened on our ground and surrounding prison property is what is now happening state wide.
10-17-2008 | 12:47 PM
#32
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,195
Likes: 0
From: PA.
RE: Article on PA hunting
ORIGINAL: muzzyman88
Since I started this latest hornets nest, I might as well chime in.
I really think that hunters as a whole in this state need social reengineering if you will. By that I mean this. It seems as though a lot of hunters treat hunting season like buying groceries. Too many hunters seem to think that they have the right to fill their freezer each year with all of the tags they purchase. Sorry, its hunting, not grocery shopping. It's a sport, hobby, pastetime, or whatever you may call it.
While I do agree with some that the PGC's deer program has failed in some areas. This needs to be addressed. I'm not sure how. Micromanaging areas with less deer would be very difficult at best. But if you're finding less deer in the areas you've always hunted, why hunt there? Go some place else and hunt. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Isn't that the definition of insanity?
However, I must disagree with the people saying our deer herd is worse off now than it was before all of this took place. Yes, we have fewer deer now, but we also have healthier deer and more deer carrying impressive headgear. There is not a guy alive who hunts that doesn't want to see bigger racks. Leaving the small bucks walk will only improve your chances.
We are seeing a decline in hunter recruitment. It's been happening before the new deer management program started. There is a lot more factors than a few less deer in the woods attributing to this. Trust me, I know. I have a 10 year old step son who is into all types of sports and other activities. He's interested in hunting, but we can't find the time to get him out. Heck, I have a hard time getting out as much as I'd like to because of the kids' activites.
Sproul, you made the comment that the dads' are shooting deer for the kids. If it is that serious of a problem in your area, do something about it. Call your local WCO and put the bug in his ear. If these hunters feel watched, they'll probably knock it off. However, I don't feel that's the only issue here. Think about it. That type of thing has been going on long before any management program was in place. Most kids usually only get to hunt a few days at the beginning of the week. They're usually in school by the end of the week and get a couple Saturdays after that.
Bottom line is us as hunters need to take more responsibility for our actions and not blame the PGC for everything that goes wrong in your neck of the woods. I hunt of well managed private property. We've been going by an 8pt rule for years. However, our buck/doe ratio was terrible for years. This was until the surrounding prison property opened up and left hunters kill does. They've been taking approximately 150 deer a year off of there for the past 10-15 years. Not only has our buck harvest been better, but our deer our heavier now. Seems to me that what has happened on our ground and surrounding prison property is what is now happening state wide.
Since I started this latest hornets nest, I might as well chime in.
I really think that hunters as a whole in this state need social reengineering if you will. By that I mean this. It seems as though a lot of hunters treat hunting season like buying groceries. Too many hunters seem to think that they have the right to fill their freezer each year with all of the tags they purchase. Sorry, its hunting, not grocery shopping. It's a sport, hobby, pastetime, or whatever you may call it.
While I do agree with some that the PGC's deer program has failed in some areas. This needs to be addressed. I'm not sure how. Micromanaging areas with less deer would be very difficult at best. But if you're finding less deer in the areas you've always hunted, why hunt there? Go some place else and hunt. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Isn't that the definition of insanity?
However, I must disagree with the people saying our deer herd is worse off now than it was before all of this took place. Yes, we have fewer deer now, but we also have healthier deer and more deer carrying impressive headgear. There is not a guy alive who hunts that doesn't want to see bigger racks. Leaving the small bucks walk will only improve your chances.
We are seeing a decline in hunter recruitment. It's been happening before the new deer management program started. There is a lot more factors than a few less deer in the woods attributing to this. Trust me, I know. I have a 10 year old step son who is into all types of sports and other activities. He's interested in hunting, but we can't find the time to get him out. Heck, I have a hard time getting out as much as I'd like to because of the kids' activites.
Sproul, you made the comment that the dads' are shooting deer for the kids. If it is that serious of a problem in your area, do something about it. Call your local WCO and put the bug in his ear. If these hunters feel watched, they'll probably knock it off. However, I don't feel that's the only issue here. Think about it. That type of thing has been going on long before any management program was in place. Most kids usually only get to hunt a few days at the beginning of the week. They're usually in school by the end of the week and get a couple Saturdays after that.
Bottom line is us as hunters need to take more responsibility for our actions and not blame the PGC for everything that goes wrong in your neck of the woods. I hunt of well managed private property. We've been going by an 8pt rule for years. However, our buck/doe ratio was terrible for years. This was until the surrounding prison property opened up and left hunters kill does. They've been taking approximately 150 deer a year off of there for the past 10-15 years. Not only has our buck harvest been better, but our deer our heavier now. Seems to me that what has happened on our ground and surrounding prison property is what is now happening state wide.
i just got off the phone with WCO.
he did catch one of our worst poachers but only could get him for USING A SPOTLIGHT AFTER HRS..
he also stated that overtime is cut to almost just 5 hrs a month.
sooooooooooooooooooooo,you can see SPROUL does contact and help the local WCO.
this is why i have to keep my identity secret,if not, information i get will dry up.
rendell has freeze on money right now, if we dont report what is happening, its going to continue..
if a WCO does not stop and tell crews and hunters he sees that he is WATCHING the DADS/UNCLES/COUSINS/FRIENDS shooting deer for kids,IT WILL CONTINUE.
YOU ARE RIGHT BUT ITS UP TO PGC TO STOP THIS .
THEY CAN STOP IT BY GTETTING IN FACE OF ALL OF US AND LETTINGUS KNOW IT WILL NOTTOLERATED.[:@]
10-17-2008 | 12:57 PM
#33
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,299
Likes: 0
From: Central PA
RE: Article on PA hunting
Sproul, I commend you for reporting people like that. More hunters need to do this. Turn up the heat on the idiots who are poaching in or out of season.
We had a couple of poaching incidents around here too. A couple of complaints to the warden in our area cured that up pretty quickly.
I realize where everyone is coming from in this debacle, I really do. But I do believe our bucks are getting better. I don't think we'll ever see the numbers of record class deer coming out of PA as you do other states. There are simply too many hunters and not enough land for that to happen.
I personally would love to see us go back to seperated seasons for buck and doe and also go 4pts a side statewide.
We had a couple of poaching incidents around here too. A couple of complaints to the warden in our area cured that up pretty quickly.
I realize where everyone is coming from in this debacle, I really do. But I do believe our bucks are getting better. I don't think we'll ever see the numbers of record class deer coming out of PA as you do other states. There are simply too many hunters and not enough land for that to happen.
I personally would love to see us go back to seperated seasons for buck and doe and also go 4pts a side statewide.
10-17-2008 | 01:09 PM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: Article on PA hunting
fellas2
Are you talking the ANF area or the private stuff close to home?
email or PM me. I can't give up all my hard earned secrets publicly but I might be inclined to help a little
Please invite me to your place to hunt !
email or PM me. I can't give up all my hard earned secrets publicly but I might be inclined to help a little
10-17-2008 | 01:19 PM
#35
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,195
Likes: 0
From: PA.
RE: Article on PA hunting
ORIGINAL: muzzyman88
Sproul, I commend you for reporting people like that. More hunters need to do this. Turn up the heat on the idiots who are poaching in or out of season.
We had a couple of poaching incidents around here too. A couple of complaints to the warden in our area cured that up pretty quickly.
I realize where everyone is coming from in this debacle, I really do. But I do believe our bucks are getting better. I don't think we'll ever see the numbers of record class deer coming out of PA as you do other states. There are simply too many hunters and not enough land for that to happen.
I personally would love to see us go back to seperated seasons for buck and doe and also go 4pts a side statewide.
Sproul, I commend you for reporting people like that. More hunters need to do this. Turn up the heat on the idiots who are poaching in or out of season.
We had a couple of poaching incidents around here too. A couple of complaints to the warden in our area cured that up pretty quickly.
I realize where everyone is coming from in this debacle, I really do. But I do believe our bucks are getting better. I don't think we'll ever see the numbers of record class deer coming out of PA as you do other states. There are simply too many hunters and not enough land for that to happen.
I personally would love to see us go back to seperated seasons for buck and doe and also go 4pts a side statewide.
if it was 2 weeks of buck /3 days of doe, that would be a big dissappointment to the brown its down crowd with kids.
those hunters would have to look before shooting a deer in both the buck season /3 day doe season.
they would have to make sure its buck in buck and not a buck in doe season.
they still could shoot the little buck in buck season but would take some of the problem out.
thats good idea, not perfect, but improvement.
what a great idea.
10-17-2008 | 01:31 PM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: Article on PA hunting
Personally, I like the change they're implementingin 2D 2G etc with the first 5 days being buck only followed by a concurrent season.
It sounds like a good idea but only time will tell
It sounds like a good idea but only time will tell
10-17-2008 | 01:43 PM
#37
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,195
Likes: 0
From: PA.
RE: Article on PA hunting
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Personally, I like the change they're implementingin 2D 2G etc with the first 5 days being buck only followed by a concurrent season.
It sounds like a good idea but only time will tell
Personally, I like the change they're implementingin 2D 2G etc with the first 5 days being buck only followed by a concurrent season.
It sounds like a good idea but only time will tell
yes, saturday of first week will be like first day.
MOST are already getting ready to get their doe in oct. muzzleloader this year more than waiting for saturday of dec.
i wish it was for 2 weeks,then 3 days of doe.
almost everyone i talk too wants to go back to old rules.
10-17-2008 | 02:12 PM
#38
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
RE: Article on PA hunting
CHEEZ, two weeks of buck followed by 2-3 days antlerless,what a novel idea !!! How'd they come up with that one ? Let me think back,let see,was that here in PA FOR ABOUT FIFTY YEARS.Used to be the booklet was 10 pages in a pocket sized version and took 10 minutes to read,Had the same book forever other than season dates.Now you got to spend an entire evening and have a degree to read a full size magazine cause nothings the same from one year to the next.They change everything but the need to use Davie Crocket's flintlock in muzzleloader season.Even Ohio (NO OFFENSE TO YOU OHIO GUYS) lets them use inlines during their season,but we gotta still carry 200 year old technology.
10-17-2008 | 06:38 PM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
From: PA
RE: Article on PA hunting
I haven't posted for awhile so I'll chime in.
I'm lucky enough to have two tracts of private land to hunt here in Lancaster county.The SGL's here are pathetic and I'm done hunting them.
As for our camp in the NC again lucky enough to hunt on private land with most of it being open to hunting.However there's just enough posted properties to keep a decent number of deer around.
The state forest around our camp is pathetic within a 45 minute drive in any direction.I'm talking about deer.
I feel for you guys stuck on public land and advise you to seek some private land or get a lease cause it aint going to get better.
Some will say I'm being negative but I tells it as I see it.
I'm lucky enough to have two tracts of private land to hunt here in Lancaster county.The SGL's here are pathetic and I'm done hunting them.
As for our camp in the NC again lucky enough to hunt on private land with most of it being open to hunting.However there's just enough posted properties to keep a decent number of deer around.
The state forest around our camp is pathetic within a 45 minute drive in any direction.I'm talking about deer.
I feel for you guys stuck on public land and advise you to seek some private land or get a lease cause it aint going to get better.
Some will say I'm being negative but I tells it as I see it.