Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
10-21-2008, 10:00 PM
#311
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn
I have been out since my last post and have seen a doelast night and tonight as well. Both times it was at dark and both of these places were different areas that I hadn't hunted yet this season. I feel better now that I have seen something but seeing these few deer after the hours I spent and miles I walked scouting is ridiculous. Oh well, I had 205 hours in the woods last season before I shot a 120" 8 pointer, looks like I have an even longer season ahead of me this year. I saw alot more buck and doe last year and this year I have yet to see a buck but have found a few scrapes and alot of rubs in one "specific" area.
I'd like to see that video. I watched a drop tine spike buck beat up on a few buck in Ohio this year. He wouldn't face them head on but as soon as they turned he jab them in the side or in the tail. I am curious to see how his rack develops over the next 3 years. Might have to put him on the wall when he grows up.
I have been out since my last post and have seen a doelast night and tonight as well. Both times it was at dark and both of these places were different areas that I hadn't hunted yet this season. I feel better now that I have seen something but seeing these few deer after the hours I spent and miles I walked scouting is ridiculous. Oh well, I had 205 hours in the woods last season before I shot a 120" 8 pointer, looks like I have an even longer season ahead of me this year. I saw alot more buck and doe last year and this year I have yet to see a buck but have found a few scrapes and alot of rubs in one "specific" area.
I'd like to see that video. I watched a drop tine spike buck beat up on a few buck in Ohio this year. He wouldn't face them head on but as soon as they turned he jab them in the side or in the tail. I am curious to see how his rack develops over the next 3 years. Might have to put him on the wall when he grows up.
i am trying to get someone to steer me thru how to put my sd card pictures on here,if anyone can help me do it, please pm me .thanks
10-22-2008, 06:01 AM
#313
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Decline in junior license sales are due in a large part to the following.....
1. Growing anti-hunting sentiment in public, schools, etc.
2. Computers
3. Video games
4. Parents having to work longer to make ends meet
1. Growing anti-hunting sentiment in public, schools, etc.
2. Computers
3. Video games
4. Parents having to work longer to make ends meet
Instant gratification is the name of the game today. Every hunter wants a perfectly balanced herd, that is HUGE enough to take a buck and a doe in a matter of minutes. It just doesn`t work that way.
There are not enough management units to do the job correctly. Unfortunately, our own ranks cried like little girls and ran the best guy we had out of Dodge before he could get everything he wanted in the management of our deer herd.
Alt was not qualified to manage the herd in PA since he didn't even know the B/D ratio or the cause of late breeding. He was just a figure head and a pitchman for the push to reduce the herd.
10-22-2008, 06:36 AM
#314
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
Junior license sales were increasing until 2004.
It wasn't that way in the past and it's not that way today. The vast majority of the hunters know that only 15-20% of buck hunters kill a buck each year.
Alt was not qualified to manage the herd in PA since he didn't even know the B/D ratio or the cause of late breeding. He was just a figure head and a pitchman for the push to reduce the herd.
Decline in junior license sales are due in a large part to the following.....
1. Growing anti-hunting sentiment in public, schools, etc.
2. Computers
3. Video games
4. Parents having to work longer to make ends meet
1. Growing anti-hunting sentiment in public, schools, etc.
2. Computers
3. Video games
4. Parents having to work longer to make ends meet
Instant gratification is the name of the game today. Every hunter wants a perfectly balanced herd, that is HUGE enough to take a buck and a doe in a matter of minutes. It just doesn`t work that way.
There are not enough management units to do the job correctly. Unfortunately, our own ranks cried like little girls and ran the best guy we had out of Dodge before he could get everything he wanted in the management of our deer herd.
Alt was not qualified to manage the herd in PA since he didn't even know the B/D ratio or the cause of late breeding. He was just a figure head and a pitchman for the push to reduce the herd.
I apologize.......coming into this thread late, and not reading many posts, I did not realize you were a PR man for unified?[
]I did not know that I was dealing with an agenda here.......but it is obvious from your brief reply to my post that no intelligent discourse can be had on the subject.
10-22-2008, 06:54 AM
#315
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
I did not know that I was dealing with an agenda here.......but it is obvious from your brief reply to my post that no intelligent discourse can be had on the subject.
BTW, you were right about insurance companies, check stations and the limiting factor of having a large number of hunters. There is simply no way to manage the herd to get significant numbers of 3.5 and 4.5 buck with over 900K hunters.
10-22-2008, 09:10 AM
#316
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
i am life member of USP.
i grew up with vice president don clemmer of tamarack.
i agree with most of what they do.
i did not agree with their SUNDAY HUNTING that they want bigtime.
i do agree with their ONE DEER AND YOUR DONE IDEA in wmu2g.
i also agree on only kid shooting a doe in WMU2G,not adults.
i disagree with them on mentoured youth thing,i believe its only way for most adults to get another deer illegally and not need a tag.
i disagree with the AR thing for kids, i feel it should be 3 points for all because the BROWN ITS DOWN WITH KIDS TAG HUNTERS are shooting at ANY deer that is seen.
so,i dont like everything they do.
heck, we all quit our local sportsmans club because they are working with DCNR,they turned our club into a ENVIRONMENTAL CLUB.[:@]
the president of club says there are LOTS of deer in clinton county,he is former DCNR employee.
so,there you have it.
I CAN ONLY SAY THIS, IF YOU WANT TO HEAR TRUTH OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN CLINTON/POTTER/CAMERON COUNTYS,you only need to ask me,no USP/DCNR/PGC /DCNR SPORTSMAN CLUBS/OR RSB
will ever try to buy ole sproul off.
I CANT BE BOUGHT OFF
i grew up with vice president don clemmer of tamarack.
i agree with most of what they do.
i did not agree with their SUNDAY HUNTING that they want bigtime.
i do agree with their ONE DEER AND YOUR DONE IDEA in wmu2g.
i also agree on only kid shooting a doe in WMU2G,not adults.
i disagree with them on mentoured youth thing,i believe its only way for most adults to get another deer illegally and not need a tag.
i disagree with the AR thing for kids, i feel it should be 3 points for all because the BROWN ITS DOWN WITH KIDS TAG HUNTERS are shooting at ANY deer that is seen.
so,i dont like everything they do.
heck, we all quit our local sportsmans club because they are working with DCNR,they turned our club into a ENVIRONMENTAL CLUB.[:@]
the president of club says there are LOTS of deer in clinton county,he is former DCNR employee.
so,there you have it.
I CAN ONLY SAY THIS, IF YOU WANT TO HEAR TRUTH OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN CLINTON/POTTER/CAMERON COUNTYS,you only need to ask me,no USP/DCNR/PGC /DCNR SPORTSMAN CLUBS/OR RSB
will ever try to buy ole sproul off.I CANT BE BOUGHT OFF
10-22-2008, 10:48 AM
#318
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
i liked the AR rule at meeting i attended with alt.
i did not like it when i saw the sportsman club locally with 3 little kids with sad eyes say,
WE NEED TO KILL LITTLE BUCKS, THEY LOOKED AT COMMISSIONERS WITH BIG SAD EYES.
there went program.fill the freezer daddy made out in this rule, for sure
if you want bucks to mature, let them live awhile.
also alt said,DONT SHOOT THE FAWNS.
hunters did...so, unless they listen and stop the kids shooting small bucks,the AR is not going to work very good,i would say about 30% working.
again, i see program failing because the hunters are not letting their kids shoot the little bucks.what is kid learning when dad/cousin/uncle/friends shoot the little bucks and call for tags or have kid come tag it.
some are going by rules and they are sportsman raising their kids right waybut very few on STATEFORESTLAND are going by rules..[:@]
i did not like it when i saw the sportsman club locally with 3 little kids with sad eyes say,
WE NEED TO KILL LITTLE BUCKS, THEY LOOKED AT COMMISSIONERS WITH BIG SAD EYES.
there went program.fill the freezer daddy made out in this rule, for sure
if you want bucks to mature, let them live awhile.
also alt said,DONT SHOOT THE FAWNS.
hunters did...so, unless they listen and stop the kids shooting small bucks,the AR is not going to work very good,i would say about 30% working.
again, i see program failing because the hunters are not letting their kids shoot the little bucks.what is kid learning when dad/cousin/uncle/friends shoot the little bucks and call for tags or have kid come tag it.
some are going by rules and they are sportsman raising their kids right waybut very few on STATEFORESTLAND are going by rules..[:@]
10-22-2008, 11:06 AM
#319
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Sproul,
we've gone round and round over this issue and although I agree that the potential exists for abuse, I really think you're blowing it way out of proportion.
I do beleive that you beleive it's going on and I'm trying to give you a fair chance to convince me and everyone else here that the problem is as big as you say it is. Your description of things you've experienced indicate that you have vivid powers recollection so this request should be easy for you.
Tell us the details of the situations where you have DIRECT knowledge of a dad using the kids tag on a sub AR deer. When, where, who, rack size of the buck involved and was it reported and did the WCO pursue it. What were the results with the WCO? Were the parties prosecuted?
For now, lets just hear the stories where you have some personal knowledge. I'm asling you to leave out the barroom stories that we all hear andlimit it to what you would be willing to testify to if called upon to do so.
I'll promise to do my best to read it all with an open mind....I invite you to convince me!
Fair enough?
we've gone round and round over this issue and although I agree that the potential exists for abuse, I really think you're blowing it way out of proportion.
I do beleive that you beleive it's going on and I'm trying to give you a fair chance to convince me and everyone else here that the problem is as big as you say it is. Your description of things you've experienced indicate that you have vivid powers recollection so this request should be easy for you.
Tell us the details of the situations where you have DIRECT knowledge of a dad using the kids tag on a sub AR deer. When, where, who, rack size of the buck involved and was it reported and did the WCO pursue it. What were the results with the WCO? Were the parties prosecuted?
For now, lets just hear the stories where you have some personal knowledge. I'm asling you to leave out the barroom stories that we all hear andlimit it to what you would be willing to testify to if called upon to do so.
I'll promise to do my best to read it all with an open mind....I invite you to convince me!
Fair enough?
10-22-2008, 02:44 PM
#320
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Sproul,
we've gone round and round over this issue and although I agree that the potential exists for abuse, I really think you're blowing it way out of proportion.
I do beleive that you beleive it's going on and I'm trying to give you a fair chance to convince me and everyone else here that the problem is as big as you say it is. Your description of things you've experienced indicate that you have vivid powers recollection so this request should be easy for you.
Tell us the details of the situations where you have DIRECT knowledge of a dad using the kids tag on a sub AR deer. When, where, who, rack size of the buck involved and was it reported and did the WCO pursue it. What were the results with the WCO? Were the parties prosecuted?
For now, lets just hear the stories where you have some personal knowledge. I'm asling you to leave out the barroom stories that we all hear andlimit it to what you would be willing to testify to if called upon to do so.
I'll promise to do my best to read it all with an open mind....I invite you to convince me!
Fair enough?
Sproul,
we've gone round and round over this issue and although I agree that the potential exists for abuse, I really think you're blowing it way out of proportion.
I do beleive that you beleive it's going on and I'm trying to give you a fair chance to convince me and everyone else here that the problem is as big as you say it is. Your description of things you've experienced indicate that you have vivid powers recollection so this request should be easy for you.
Tell us the details of the situations where you have DIRECT knowledge of a dad using the kids tag on a sub AR deer. When, where, who, rack size of the buck involved and was it reported and did the WCO pursue it. What were the results with the WCO? Were the parties prosecuted?
For now, lets just hear the stories where you have some personal knowledge. I'm asling you to leave out the barroom stories that we all hear andlimit it to what you would be willing to testify to if called upon to do so.
I'll promise to do my best to read it all with an open mind....I invite you to convince me!
Fair enough?
i said they are shooting out windows at 530 am to 8am .
do you know they shoot deer at 530 without spotlight?
they use snow,deer stick out, yes, they are not worried about if it has horns or not.
i also told him i feel the poachers are not shooting deer in woods now, they are doing it next to homes and privateland do to lack of deer in woods,times are around 10to 12pm.
i also ASKED him to stop hunters and tell them you have reports of the adults shooting spikes etc then having the junior hunters tag itwhile driving the deer,i believe most of violations are hunters in crews driving deer.
maybe you did not read to close,did i not say they caught a POACHER in hyner,pa with spotlight .sadly, they
could not get him for shooting a deer but we know he got a huge 5 point before.
only thing you are right on is, I HAVE NOT SEEN IT HAPPEN ,only what i FEEL is happening from info i hear.
do you know some carry hacksaws to cut deer horns off if not 3 point to side,yes, THAT WAS REPORTED TO WCO, NOT BY ME BUT BY A PERSON WHO SAW IT.
soooooooooooo,what else do you want me to do, stand on my head.
