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Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

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Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Old 10-19-2008, 03:15 PM
  #291  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

"Surveys says.... WRONG!!! It isdenial to refuse to accept that the problem is much bigger than simply a few less deer in our one little state."

Our management agency manages one state. Any problems elsewhere mayvary. They dont have our deer sham andmost dont have double the national average declines.

"You claim to know a lot about "a dozen or more states" but the content of your posts betrays your claims "

And your poor attempts to decieve and use "nothing" as proof of anything belies your knowledge of alot of things and your blind noncaring about anything else, support of pgc.

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Old 10-19-2008, 03:17 PM
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"Oh, OK I now realize that I'm talking to the Aplha hunter"

So now you know. No biggie. Nothing Im ashamed of. Im a skilled hunter and not some lout. Cant seem to win with the irrational pgc supporters. Anything said about anything is always the wrong thing. Even when they themselves havent been right about anything to date.

"I haven't found anything to support your claim but I did find this report that is right smack in the middle of our new deer management era"

Ha ha ha. You sound like the game commission spokesperson. (LOL) Cherry picked one year, when noone said ANYTHING about that one year! (LOL) And that was just to show things were "bad" that year but not "terrible"... Well when you compare 2001-2006, we are declining at over twice the national average. And 2004.....1953 or 1972 aint gonna change the fact that the deer plan runs concurrent with that decline.

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Old 10-19-2008, 03:32 PM
  #293  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Our management agency manages one state. Any problems elsewhere mayvary. They dont have our deer sham andmost dont have double the national average declines.
For the third time, true only in your mind. You have failed so far to back that statement up

Ha ha ha. You sound like the game commission spokesperson. (LOL) Cherry picked one year, when noone said ANYTHING about that one year! (LOL) And that was just to show things were "bad" that year but not "terrible"... Well when you compare 2001-2006, we are declining at over twice the national average. And 2004.....1953 or 1972 aint gonna change the fact that the deer plan runs concurrent with that decline.
As I said, NO proof from you whatsoever
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:36 PM
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Oh, Im sorry, I neglected that. Im not used to basicallybeing called a liar.

Then again, at times, I like to make you ask several times just to give you hope...Before I yank it away. (LOL)

See page 19. Table 9. If you are confused about anything else, I'll be happy to get you on the right track once again.


http://library.fws.gov/nat_survey2006.pdf

I have also already given you the pgc link to their license sales, so you outta be able to compare our 10% decline to the estimated 4% decline stated on the above link for the nation.

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Old 10-19-2008, 03:54 PM
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

ORIGINAL: Cornelius08

Oh, Im sorry, I neglected that. Im not used to basicallybeing called a liar.

Then again, at times, I like to make you ask several times just to give you hope...Before I yank it away. (LOL)

See page 19. Table 9. If you are confused about anything else, I'll be happy to get you on the right track once again.


http://library.fws.gov/nat_survey2006.pdf

I have also already given you the pgc link to their license sales, so you outta be able to compare our 10% decline to the estimated 4% decline stated on the above link for the nation.
Talk about cherry picking! A quick look at Table 10 on the next page of the same reportshows that over a ten year period puts Pa right back close to the national average.Looks like somethings going on in the other states as well after all!Of course I'd expect you to overlook that! Have you been getting lessons from Blueburd?
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:58 PM
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

10 years ago we had no farce deer program. Thats why its not "cherry picking" The years of 2001-2006 are. They are also one "compilation" of years compared nationwide by usfws.

Although you chose to pic the 10 yr scene, that is far from the most applicable, it still shows Pa BELOW the national average for that time period. Pa with 15% decline compared to the nation at 10. And that is a cherry picked best case scenario that doesnt even apply. In the real world most accurate assessment 10% from 01 to 06 is over double 4% for the nation... And its likely to grow the longer pgc shuns responsible change.

Didnt expect an apology or an "Im wrong" from you. Knew it would never happen. But I would at least suggest a graceful changing of the subject.
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:05 PM
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ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn

UPDATE!!!! All deer aren't dead, I've seen 3 !!!

Have hunted now 48 hrs in Pa andmy deer count has risen from 1 doe to 3 doe, actually 1 adult doe and 2 yearling doe.

4 Different Mountains, 2 different food plots, 2 bedding areas (at least they used to be "in the past"), and 2 different water sources. Stalk hunted, still hunted, carried my climber countless miles and alsopushed thickets for my fiance. And 3 deer is the result????? Great! At this rate in another 144 hours I might be up to a dozen deer.

Thank You Game Commission!

dont tell ANYONE where you were, or those young doe are history.

thats how bad it has gotten here in clinton/potter/cameron counties.[:@]






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Old 10-19-2008, 06:09 PM
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one thing for sure,with my and othersobservations in WMU2G in FIELD and the info you all have from BOOKS, i betPGC/DCNR cant even come close to what they have done and wont admit.
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:09 PM
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

I've no intention of apologizing orsaying I was wrong either. Iwill concede thatyour repeating the USFWS was accurate in it's context.But then again, so was mine.

My point would be that it's all relative to when the "snapshot" is taken. I believe I already agreed that some hunters, (most probably the Monday one day warriors) have quit due to seeing less deer. That doesnt change the fact that our numbers are dropping at an alarming rate all across the country or that other states have people just as vocal as you making similar doomsayer predictions. As a matter of fact, folks like you have been warning of impending doom here in Pa for quite a long time. The USP was formed quite a long time ago. I beleive t was in the 80's when bonus tags first came out and they have been screaming that we were going to kill all the deer since way back then. Even back in the 70's when I started hunting, i remember hearing a few guys at the gun club crying that killing all these does was going to ruin hunting in PA.

Your tunnell vision citing the deer program as the sole reasonfor declining license sales is still grossly inaccurate. Your claim thatthevast majority of Pa hunters is anywhere near as unhappy with things as you seem to be is also grossly inaccurate and the only surveys regarding hunter satisfaction that are avaialable tell a story that is quite different.
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

"My point would be that it's all relative to when the "snapshot" is taken. I believe I already agreed that some hunters, (most probably the Monday one day warriors) have quit due to seeing less deer."

I agree. But to the sport of hunting those people are just as important as you, I or any other more than casual hunter. Their money supports the wildlife management just the same, and their voice carries just as muchweightagainst anti-hunting (or antideer) interests, andother legislative issues. If were willing to "do without" all those that are less than die-hards, we'd most likely have even far fewer hunters than we do currently. I dont think that to be a "good" thing.

"That doesnt change the fact that our numbers are dropping at an alarming rate all across the country "

Yeah, well we need to worry less about Timbuktu and worry more about our state. We shouldnt heap even more hunter unfriendly agendas upon our plate as we have, compounding the problem and refuse to address it.

"or that other states have people just as vocal as you making similar doomsayer predictions."

No placein this nation has as much "fighting" going on over itshunting... NO WHERE. Nor even close. Nor is there as much distrust, Nor is there an attempt to cling to a proven miserably failed deer program.

"As a matter of fact, folks like you have been warning of impending doom here in Pa for quite a long time."

And the same could be said of the "anti-deer" factions. Predictions made MANY decades ago that were absolutely rediculous. Predicting doom far greater than anyone else has predicted. Even with far far fewer deer. Shortly after the herd was rebuilt, the predictions began! (LOL)[:'(] Then there were others shortly thereafter like Latham etc. Just as extreme as many today. Previously they were ignored and tossed off the game commission. Today they run the game commission. And even though the predictions STILL never came to pass from long long ago, here we are.

The USP was formed quite a long time ago. I beleive t was in the 80's when bonus tags first came out and they have been screaming that we were going to kill all the deer since way back then. Even back in the 70's when I started hunting, i remember hearing a few guys at the gun club crying that killing all these does was going to ruin hunting in PA. "

So? They have a right to their opinion...Same as you or I. Just because they may disagree with you and at times me, doesnt make their opinions any less worthy of consideration. They too buy licenses and have vested interest. This is just one example of a time when they are nearly 100% correct in their stance. i dont necessarily support things like ending doe season etc. But They do see a real problem that most of us see quite clearly. I think there are simple solutions. Reasonable doe allocations. Pgc just isnt willing to be reasonable where hunters are concerned.

"Your tunnell vision citing the deer program as the sole reasonfor declining license sales is still grossly inaccurate."

I didnt say that. Its a significant, if not THEE MOST significant factor. And also the easiest to address, which is why its pure idiocy for pgc to completely ignore the issue and still act concerned over the hunter losses and cry poor-mouth to boot. HOw many hunters are they gonna accept being run off, just for the rest of us to make up the difference monetarily? And Im not talking individually, Im talking the total cumulatively. We would get SOOO much more with more of these hunters we're losing, plus by fixing the deer situation, which in turn would get them the license fee increase as well.

"Your claim thatthevast majority of Pa hunters is anywhere near as unhappy with things as you seem to be is also grossly inaccurate "

Not really. Im not as "unhappy" as most. Even PGc basically admits most are not tickled with the reduction but use the usual excuses to ignore the discontent in the name of "the greater good"....and for the good of society etc... Even though society doesnt equate to a small portion of timber industry and even smaller number of eco-extremists.

"and the only surveys regarding hunter satisfaction that are avaialable tell a story that is quite different."

Yeah. Ask people like pfsc! (LOL) (and conservationists!)....The very antideereco-extremists that are half of our problems to beginwith these days! (LOL) Only polls ive seen by pgc, where asked to selective individuals and they were only in regard to certain aspects like; do you approve of ar... Not how do you feel overall... Or how do you feel about hr. They dont need to ask either. I think you know that as well as I do.

Pgc quit caring about hunters and the sport some time ago. When they started seating eco-extremist oriented and timber interest driven boc members. Pallone quickly comes to minds as a prime example.

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